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Double Bass Warning about Romano Solano Bass Luthier
- Thread starter Low Hertz
- Start date
If when I play the Bottesini Elegy, I sound half as good on the bass, I wont care if there are any trade offs. I'd rather sound good, and go get the instrument checked out, and have the issue remedied before it effects the longevity of the instrument (Solano insures his work for a year, if there is anything wrong structurally I can bring it in and he will remedy it no problem.) then have something that doesnt sound as good. Even if that step is necessary, which I can only be optimistic about, I still think it's a steal.
You "won't care if there are any tradeoffs." Really? If so, then we sure differ. I think you're engaging in a bit of fantasy if you think you can simply "go get the bass checked out, and have the issue remedied before it effects the longevity of the instrument." I say that because flaws cannot always be spotted before they reveal themselves. Even when they are spotted, the remedy could be quite involved. I wouldn't want to do that on a brand new bass! Take Monte's experience. Who would have spotted the neck-set issue? If it had been spotted, what then?
More to the point, I think the tradeoff is completely unnecessary. I firmly believe that there are makers who can supply $12-14k basses that are not constructed in a hurry and are essentially free of errors that sound every bit as good or better. You may not agree. You may think that the Solanos are so sonically superior to anything else in their price-range that the potential for structural flaws is well worth it. Okay, fine. You're not "wrong" at all. You simply have a different opinion about the sound than I do and you accept different tradeoffs than I would. That's what makes horse-racing.
You make good points, but first off, I don't think Monte paid $12-14k for his bass initially. He may have that in it now after the repair, which I'm guessing wasn't chump change. So, let's say Monte paid $9k for the bass (I have seen that model on the used market for that price). Monte feels it has a $25k sound and he loves the bass in general. I can tell you from experience the difficulty in finding a great sounding bass, and I don't care what price range we are talking about.
I recently sold a bass with a killer sound. I went to a local shop and compared it to every bass there (25 or so), some in the $20k's, and mine sounded better than all, in my opinion and the shop owner's. It sold and many of the other basses are still there. I've also played a Hatchez that sounded like nothing special, and other high end basses without high end sound. So I feel that if you find that sound you are after, and the bass feels good, that is the primary thing here. If it's flaws can be assessed, then you can decide on a price with work done. If the flaw is invisible, as with Monte's Solano, you do the best you can. I have to think Monte has come out way ahead as he loves his bass and it still has the quality sound that is so hard to find at any price. And this is not to excuse the initial poor workmanship, but the end result is still more than satisfactory.
Fair enough. I think $9k is even too high to have to be concerned about fundamental workmanship errors. Still, I hear you (and Monte). Tradeoffs are a matter of degree. As with most things in life, one has to weigh them. Indeed, if Monte found that bass that speaks to him so well, then sure, the only opinion that matters is his with regard to whether any issues he had were, in the end, worth it. This is, of course, all after the fact. Having a great-sounding bass is a wonderful thing! On the practical side, you gotta be able to keep playing it.
I still think there are fine makers at the price-point being discussed such that one need not consider workmanship to be an issue. Now, whether they speak to a player is key.
You "won't care if there are any tradeoffs." Really? If so, then we sure differ. I think you're engaging in a bit of fantasy if you think you can simply "go get the bass checked out, and have the issue remedied before it effects the longevity of the instrument." I say that because flaws cannot always be spotted before they reveal themselves. Even when they are spotted, the remedy could be quite involved. I wouldn't want to do that on a brand new bass! Take Monte's experience. Who would have spotted the neck-set issue? If it had been spotted, what then?
More to the point, I think the tradeoff is completely unnecessary. I firmly believe that there are makers who can supply $12-14k basses that are not constructed in a hurry and are essentially free of errors that sound every bit as good or better. You may not agree. You may think that the Solanos are so sonically superior to anything else in their price-range that the potential for structural flaws is well worth it. Okay, fine. You're not "wrong" at all. You simply have a different opinion about the sound than I do and you accept different tradeoffs than I would. That's what makes horse-racing.
I humbly respect your opinion to the unteenth degree. I believe that the Solano's I have seen and I have played are made well, especially for the price range. Some instruments have structural problems, I have seen newer Romanian instruments with neck pockets that are too big, and I have seen the same thing in new Wilfers (someone in my school has this). The idea that this was fixed without too much trouble isn't a concern. You can't assume that the bass will have a problem right when you buy it. It's like betting against the horse with the brown spots, just because other horses with brown spots lost races, and others won races. I am sure @Monte loves his bass, and still plays it. He didn't realize that there was a problem until 10 years down the road, which isn't so terrible. In that time, he could have had the investment of his instrument already paid for (12-14k over 10 years of playing the same bass...). I don't think that setting up a bass to fail is a good idea, and saying that everything someone makes isn't good just isn't true. He has professional musicians in professional orchestras, jazz settings, and conservatories all over the US, Latin America, and Europe. If he's till in business after all this time, he has to be doing something right... we as consumers vote to keep things with our dollars, if it was so bad he would have been voted off the island long ago.
That being said, if I don't like the bass I won't keep it, however Solano has said to me that if I didn't like it he would do his best to get it there, and if it's not I have no obligation. (He said to me if I didnt like the neck he would remake a neck, he even said that if I didnt like the scroll he would remake it). He's the only maker I spoke to who was willing to do that, and like I have been saying, he's been nothing but friendly and helpful throughout the whole process. He gives complete answers and has double checked with me to make sure I liked everything so far. He gives a friendly experience. I can't say that the bass is set to fail, because so far it hasn't
@Eric Hochberg This was what I was trying to say! Sometimes I just cant get what I want to say into my posts.
Hold on there. I sure didn't say that everything Solano makes isn't good! I never generalized from a single case. The fact is that there are other cases and that Monte generalized:
I responded to that and made two points:
1) I prefer not to have to even consider fundamental workmanship to be an issue on a multi-thousand dollar bass. I weigh that parameter very heavily. Others may not.
2) Given current makers, I don't think that one need accept workmanship as a potential issue in order to get the sound one wants.
I'd be far more interested in your experience after you have the bass in your hands. I hope that it's everything you want and that you are thrilled with all aspects of it.
Bingo Eric!
You saved me from typing a lot.
Drub, you are welcome to your opinion, but mine isn't exactly a ridiculous position given the number of professional and very good players around the US who have owned and continue to play Solano's basses. I know the bass instructor at U of Memphis, professor of DOuble bass and Oklahoma Symphony member, etc etc could play other basses if they chose but they like their Solano's. Sorry if I'm not clear but I keep saying I don't see on the current market many if any of the factory instruments that sell in the price range of Solano's that have the sound, the materials, and yes....even the workmanship. I'm sorry you have the opinion they are junk but they just aren't.
I agree. Even a Chinese factory ply should have good enough workmanship so that the bass holds together under normal conditions.
@drurb Thank you very much, I will thoroughly document everything with the bass. (I'll start a thread with a few pictures today)
+1 to @Monte
You have unjustifiably and inappropriately twisted my words in one of the worst ways possible. You ought to be ashamed. I never said Solanos were junk, nor is that my overall opinion of them. You reported workmanship issues and characterized the process. I simply responded by saying that I would not find such concerns acceptable in that price range. Me, not anyone else. I am well aware that many fine players choose and play Solano basses. Perhaps it was you who committed an injustice to Solano by characterizing his process as one in which he hurries and makes errors. Now you are saying that his basses have superior workmanship to other basses selling in the same price range! Hmm... I don't think other well-known and respected makers who offer instruments in that price range hurry and make errors. It seems that you are saying that you mischaracterized Solano's work. If so, then just say so.
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I think that this is the official thread of misunderstandings... we all need to chill a little and civilly debate
At the end of the day we're all bassists and we all love bass. TBH when I read the post the first time, I thought the same thing Monte did, but I see where youre coming from, and that you dont mean to be destructive. all just opinions
I think that this is the official thread of misunderstandings... we all need to chill a little and civilly debate
I think it's been quite civil. As I said:
I responded to that (Monte's generalization) and made two points:
1) I prefer not to have to even consider fundamental workmanship to be an issue on a multi-thousand dollar bass. I weigh that parameter very heavily. Others may not.
2) Given current makers, I don't think that one need accept workmanship as a potential issue in order to get the sound one wants.
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In response to the two points you made:
1) Whats to say that there are fundamental workmanship issues on all the basses he makes? Monte may have said something but I don't think he meant to generalize but it happened. I can tell you that there are a lot of bass makers making fundamental mistakes all the time, sh%t happens, and we all make mistakes.
2) I have a feeling you have a slight bias towards Upton... comparing upton and solano is comparing apples and oranges. Uptons do have their own problems, and trust me I've had to deal with them myself. All these issues were dealt with, easily. (Endpin was not fitted correctly, fingerboard was too wide and was hanging off the neck, bridge was really high... all these were solved in about 3 days. Now the bass is pristine and perfect)
1) I NEVER said that there are fundamental issues on all the basses he makes! It was Monte who generalized-- not me! I simply said that, assuming what Monte said really is the case, it's not a tradeoff I'd be willing to accept. Of course everyone makes mistakes. That's trivially true. It's quite different than someone being characterized as, in general, making errors. Don't lay this off on me! I simply pointed out that fundamental workmanship issues are not something I'd be willing to trade for when paying a lesser price. That's true no matter who is the maker. It's not specific to Solano and I was not the one who characterized his work that way. By the way, I don't agree that "there are a lot of bass makers making fundamental mistakes all the time." If they are making them, then their mistakes don't generally end up in the hands of their customers.
2) I NEVER mentioned Upton. I never compared Solano and Upton. You just did. In so doing, you have revealed your own bias. Specifically, you figure that if I mention other makers, I must be thinking of Upton and only Upton. Ridiculous! It's clear to me why you chose to try to drag Upton into this. It's irrelevant and you're way off base. Of course no bass is perfect. Again-- a triviality. There are quite a few makers offering basses in the $12-14k range that, IMO, compare quite favorably with Solano. Upton is among them but they sure aren't the only ones. Hey Nick, perhaps you're trying to relieve some cognitive dissonance given that you're in the middle of waiting for a bass from Solano that will replace or displace your Upton hybrid. I think that explains your hypersensitivity and irrationality.
This is a downside of internet forums. People such as yourself read INTO what others say rather than reading WHAT others say. In case it still isn't clear to you, it was like this. Monte asserted that Solano hurries and makes errors. HIS WORDS, NOT MINE. I said that that's a tradeoff that I wouldn't be willing to make. I took pains to point out that others may weigh the parameters differently. Now you and Monte try to come back at me and say that I said Solano's work is no good. Stop it. Just stop it!
Perhaps, as I said before, Monte characterized Solano's work unfairly. If so, that's on him. The fact remains that I would not be willing to trade fundamentally solid workmanship for a price reduction and I don't believe that one need do that.
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Drurb, I sincerely apologies if I offended you in any way, I honestly did not mean to. I guess I just wanted to voice my opinions. It was my mistake for mentioning upton, I shouldnt have brought anything into it, and it was stupid of me. I shouldn't read into things, and I understand that it was what Monte said...I will stand by my guns for now, and when I do get the bass I will let everyone know.
Again I really do apologies.
As for the issues with Upton that I have, I'm keeping them personal and I am keeping them private. Clearly not trying to bash anyone.
Im not going to come back at you, or anything. I just wanted to voice my opinion. And I do understand that.
No need to sweat, again, I apologize sincerely. I meant no harm to anyone...
Like we all do sometimes, I guess I got a little carried away, and again I sincerely apologize. I hope you and everyone following the forum can forgive me.
All good. Thank you. Bygones. I sincerely hope that the bass you get from Solano is spectacular and I wish you many happy years with it.
Fair enough, but as a potential customer, I personally am going to factor all of the negative press that Solano has generated and look elsewheree. Some negative negative reviews need to be expected in this day and age, but, IMO, their are too many negative reviews for me, personally, to take the risk. As Drury wrote, I believe that there are many more consistent and less risky providers in the market6. Afterall, that's what Internet reviews are for, always with a grain of salt. Too many grains for me to buy Solano, but different strokes for different folkz.
- Jan 24, 2002
- 2,117
- 950
- Disclosures
- NS Design / AER Endorsing Artist
We should be clear that there are two different issues to be discussed here.
1. Quality of work. Given the sheer numbers of basses involved here, of course there will be mixed reviews. There are bound to be some very fine examples, as well as less than stellar ones. The question here is what is typical for Solano, and also just how bad are the bad ones?
I've not seen the majority of his basses (nor has anyone else here), so it is impossible to know what the average would look like. However, I know of at least four basses which needed complete overhauls including re-graduated tops, new bass bars and re-set necks. For me, that means the bad ones are incredibly bad.
2. Shady business practices. The shoddy workmanship and cheap shortcuts are part of this, but it's not everything. As the OP claims, Solano is not a reliable business person. I also know for a fact that he will offer teachers a commission to sell his basses to their students. It isn't illegal (and that isn't to say that all teachers who recommend his basses are getting paid to do so), but I think it's immoral when it happens.
Most people who know about all of this will not say anything publicly -- they'll just quietly avoid these basses. I've moved away from that scene, and I think somebody has to say something.
1. Quality of work. Given the sheer numbers of basses involved here, of course there will be mixed reviews. There are bound to be some very fine examples, as well as less than stellar ones. The question here is what is typical for Solano, and also just how bad are the bad ones?
I've not seen the majority of his basses (nor has anyone else here), so it is impossible to know what the average would look like. However, I know of at least four basses which needed complete overhauls including re-graduated tops, new bass bars and re-set necks. For me, that means the bad ones are incredibly bad.
2. Shady business practices. The shoddy workmanship and cheap shortcuts are part of this, but it's not everything. As the OP claims, Solano is not a reliable business person. I also know for a fact that he will offer teachers a commission to sell his basses to their students. It isn't illegal (and that isn't to say that all teachers who recommend his basses are getting paid to do so), but I think it's immoral when it happens.
Most people who know about all of this will not say anything publicly -- they'll just quietly avoid these basses. I've moved away from that scene, and I think somebody has to say something.
- Jan 24, 2002
- 2,117
- 950
- Disclosures
- NS Design / AER Endorsing Artist
By the way, it's fine if you take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I've never met Solano, nor have I done business of any kind with him directly. And obviously I won't name any of my sources publicly unless they choose to come forward themselves.
