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Warwick Hellborg amp reviewed in BP

Apr 11, 2005
127,261
125,195
Plymouth NC
Disclosures
Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
Out of all the new bass amps I've heard about over the last 30 years, nothing but Markbass and this Warwick Hellborg have got me excited. In the new issue of BP, they reviewed it. And it sounds like it may possibly be the best bass amp I'll never buy.

From the sound of the review, it's like Hellborg took the preamp out of a Neve console and optimized it into a bass preamp, then paired it up with an 80's era Crown stereo power amp with an output transformer to give it a more tubey sound. Which is fine by me. You get a truly ungodly bass sound with a Neve board and Crown power amps feeding a huge tri-amped studio monitor system in a control room. Then throw in a $2000 tube compressor, and what more could you ever possibly want in a bass sound? And not that I know about such things, but apparently this output transformer thing has as much to do with making it sound like tubes breaking up at higher gain as the tubes.

I wish they had tested the big 12" cab, though. They tested single 15"s, with and without a tweeter. That kind of sucked. I'm sure Jonas designed those big cabs to sound like a control room ported over to an arena, and the small ones probably don't do it justice.

So my thoughts about the amp and preamp without having had the benefit of playing through one is that it will be the greatest bass amp system I have ever heard that I'll never ever think about owning. Now I could really get behind the preamp because Neve has awesome preamps in their consoles for bass. But $3000? To go do an arena show where my sound's going to get processed through a slew of boards ranging from Meyer to Mackie for the stage? What's the point? And really, I think my Markbass amp does every bit as good a job at reproducing that audiophile quality of a Neve preamp at a much lower weight and price. The one thing it won't do is break up like a tube amp, and apparently the Warwick does. But I've got plenty of other stuff that does, and it does it as well and cheaper than a Neve console, and most of the stuff I do is clean tones anyway. And if it's that important to you, buy a solid state Markbass with a tube preamp.

However, just once, I would like to take this entire Warwick rig just as Hellborg sets it up into a big rehearsal studio with a band and wind it out for a few hours. There's no doubt in my mind that it will be awesome. I totally agree with a lot of concepts he has about bass amplification, especially the use of 12"s instead of 10"s. I'm not as big into the 15"s for live stuff as he is, but I'm now convinced about 12"s being better than 10"s as an all-around bass speaker. But I think there are more cost-effective and easier ways to do it than the Warwick rig. For the vast majority of us, this system would be wasted. Why bring a studio to a gig when so many other factors like room acoustics and non-studio PA will reduce your sound down to a lowest common denominator? And look, 90% of good tone is playing well. The gear you use means nothing, ultimately. Look how many truly great tones on recordings have come out of some very inexpensive amps. Fender Bassmans, B-15's, Sunns, Marshalls, Laneys, Crates, whatever. Why were those tones great? Because the player did an outstanding job of playing.

So while it must be nice to commandeer a manufacturer and make totally uncompromised amps for yourself and get paid for it, I think it's going to go completely over everyone's heads. Having said that, I think a lot of rich bass players will be lining up to buy it, and we all know that catering to rich people equals getting them to part with the big bucks for their toys. Me, I'm sticking with Markbass and Ampeg. Between the two there's no sound I can't get.
 
And not that I know about such things, but apparently this output transformer thing has as much to do with making it sound like tubes breaking up at higher gain as the tubes.

Somebody used to make solid state guitar amps with output transformers based on this same idea. This was in the mid-1970's IIRC, but I can't remember the name of the company or even if they're still around. Tube amps have to have output transformers to match the high impedence of the tubes to the low impedence of speakers. Early transistor amps had transformers too, until designers realized they could build transistor amps that didn't require them, which saved cost and weight in amp designs.

One thing I do remember about this guitar amp company- the founder was an electrical engineer who wrote his doctoral thesis on the idea that output transformers had as much to do with tube amp sound as the tubes themselves. His amps deliberately incorporated transformers in the output to make them sound more "tubey".

Anybody else remember this company? It may have been Galien Krueger; they did used to make guitar amps.
 
Somebody used to make solid state guitar amps with output transformers based on this same idea. This was in the mid-1970's IIRC, but I can't remember the name of the company or even if they're still around. Tube amps have to have output transformers to match the high impedence of the tubes to the low impedence of speakers. Early transistor amps had transformers too, until designers realized they could build transistor amps that didn't require them, which saved cost and weight in amp designs.

One thing I do remember about this guitar amp company- the founder was an electrical engineer who wrote his doctoral thesis on the idea that output transformers had as much to do with tube amp sound as the tubes themselves. His amps deliberately incorporated transformers in the output to make them sound more "tubey".

Anybody else remember this company? It may have been Galien Krueger; they did used to make guitar amps.
It might have been GK. Their little tiny guitar combos did sound somewhat tubey. Not near to the degree of an actual tube amp, but to a degree that would easily be enough for bass.

And thank God tubes are really necessary for good guitar tone. They get all the chicks, and they've been able to lug around much smaller equipment than bassists for decades, but now the tables have turned and we finally get to lug much smaller equipment and get equal results.

They still get all the chicks, though, so I guess they always win in the end :rolleyes:
 
BP's "reviews" of late are even more transparent as ads. Not only did that "review" NOT look at the amp in the context of the design,it also repeated several discredited technical myths regarding tubes and output transfromers. That is a step up through; they used to not be able to tell the difference between power and output transformers. I don't doubt the amp sounds good, but that "review" was ridiculous. BTW, it mentions inductive EQ as some kind of esoteric feature. The SVT (and most of its variants) has had it for nearly 40 years.

BP has sucked ever since Jim Roberts left.
 
From what I've read the transformer has as much if not more to do with the "tube" sound as do tubes. They're making audio tube amps these days without the output transformers. It's some three letter deal like OLM or something. From what I've read they are ultra clean but not as warm. The warmth comes from the transformer. Go figure. Has anyone played the Warwick amp that has a complete low wattage pre-poweramp with output transfor into the a switch mode power section?
 
BP's "reviews" of late are even more transparent as ads.

Good call. Look through that BP magazine, I bet you'll find a Warwick ad in there someplace. How can you be objective when someone is paying you to advertise their stuff?

I'm no longer a subscriber. Their reviews never say much negative except obvious things ("this Fodera is expensive" or "this 8x10 is heavy"). I'll take talkbass every day of the week over that once-great publication.
 
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BP's "reviews" of late are even more transparent as ads. Not only did that "review" NOT look at the amp in the context of the design,it also repeated several discredited technical myths regarding tubes and output transfromers. That is a step up through; they used to not be able to tell the difference between power and output transformers. I don't doubt the amp sounds good, but that "review" was ridiculous. BTW, it mentions inductive EQ as some kind of esoteric feature. The SVT (and most of its variants) has had it for nearly 40 years.

BP has sucked ever since Jim Roberts left.
While I'll say that there are too many meaningless terms like "thwack" and "blap" in their reviews, I think they do a fair job of reviews. Truth is, there is very little truly bad equipment out there. Just about everything is good at something. And I think BP did a good job of pointing out the bad (the price). Also, I seem to remember that they pointed out that many features incorporated in the Warwick have been in use for decades in tube amps but not SS amps. I've seen a lot more kissass reviews than that one.
 
......To go do an arena show where my sound's going to get processed through a slew of boards ranging from Meyer to Mackie for the stage? What's the point?

..... Why bring a studio to a gig when so many other factors like room acoustics and non-studio PA will reduce your sound down to a lowest common denominator?

I think this is the Concept behind the Berg IP series..... Studio sound live..... alot cheaper and smaller than this Hellborg mess.....and how much is it for the preamp, power amp and cabs all together? $6k?


nobody's gonna buy those fodera basses at their price either!
you can get the same thing with a mim p bass!:rolleyes::hiding:

:p:p

BP's "reviews" of late are even more transparent as ads. Not only did that "review" NOT look at the amp in the context of the design,it also repeated several discredited technical myths regarding tubes and output transfromers. That is a step up through; they used to not be able to tell the difference between power and output transformers. I don't doubt the amp sounds good, but that "review" was ridiculous. BTW, it mentions inductive EQ as some kind of esoteric feature. The SVT (and most of its variants) has had it for nearly 40 years.

BP has sucked ever since Jim Roberts left.

+1. I used to subscribe to Bass Player JUST FOR THE REVIEWS.... but lately BP has started to smack of the now defunct BASS GUITAR magazine.....where every single item reviewed was FABULOUS!!!. Everything from strings to straps, cabinets to Capos were just HEARTSTOPPING!! AMAZING!!!! why even the $5 string-buddy winder and snipper was worthy of a full page of useless adjectives and brightly colored balloon-font explosions of glee...... and its no coincidence that the issue in which Brand X's hot new product is reviewed is also the only issue you'll ever see Brand X have a full page ad..... There is a music publication I deal with ( which shall remain nameless ) which has written internal policy that if you buy a 1/4 page in 2 or more issues your product AUTOMATICALLY gets a review..... and I'm sure BP isnt far behind........ I think the last time Bass Player Mag called a dog a dog was the whole Accugroove "Accuswitch" debacle... and even then they were really sweet about it.....after completely debunking the claims made by the manufacturer, they still postulated that it may still be doing something or working somehow.....
 
I've seen a lot more kissass reviews than that one.

I don't disagree, BUT the sad fact is that a once reputable publication has basically been reduced to a fanzine for its advertisers. Just because this wasn't the most obvious example doesn't mean that it didn't basically amount to a four-page advertisment. The technical myths were just icing on the cake. My wife made the comment that this month's issue looked especially thin, and she's right. The magazine has been steadily decreasing its print content for some time now. If you take out the ads there is VERY little magazine left.

I've let my subscription lapse a couple of times over the years because I've been disappointed in it, but now that it's pretty much the only widely available bass print publication. I just suck it up and hope to glean something useful out of it. It's bathroom reading material, after all.

I also strongly disagree with your presumption that gear on the whole is increasing in quality. On the contrary, we are now seeing the first waves of disposable gear, much like consumer electronics are considered disposable because it is much cheaper to replace than repair them. The components and assemblies used in amps today are substandard to even just three years ago. ( You can thank the EU for that.)
 
Well if it costs less to throw one out and buy a new one than it does to fix it, why not? I have no problem with that. But I don't see this disposable thing you're talking about in higher end amps. Most of them look like they're built to last or easily fixed if they go down. Even some of the cheaper ones look very solid to me.

But BP is definitely getting thinner and more expensive. That can't be argued.
 
I'm sure that the pre sounds nice but really, this pre is supposed to be the bees knees AND it really is a tweaked Neve :smug:

Invalid Link Removed


I got hipped to Invalid Link Removed a while back from someone with big ears that's 'owned' everything and has and still does make a great living playing bass and producing and he said that this preamp was the final word in bass pre's of course it'll sweeten up any vocal, guitar mic, drum mic, etc... :D
 
Sounds like that Wunder pre is suited to getting that Neve bass tone a la 70's and Hellborg's is more the 80's style. Probably not a whole lot of appreciable difference between the two.

I have to say that this is a terrific time to be a bass player. In the last couple years, solid state amp makers have finally gotten somewhere in their quest to sound as good as tube amps, and in smaller packages. As heavy as the Hellborg system is, it still weighs considerably less than an SVT and an 8-10". There have been some tremendous discoveries in the last few years and now we're seeing them being implemented in different ways, and for the first time since I plugged into an SVT for the first time, I am excited about bass amps.
 
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Yeah, and Eric Johnson claims to be able to hear the difference between a Duracell and Energizer 9 volt batteries in his pedals. Maybe we are just not gifted enough to be able to tell, or care about what the difference in tone is. Maybe these super-stud musicians get bored and need something new to exercise their brains on. When you know all there is about playing your instrument then you must find some new aspect to further your development. Either way it seems kind of snobby to me but maybe it is something similar to a dog's hearing. Maybe they can just hear something that we mere mortals can't.