Warwick Hellborg amp reviewed in BP

[seamonkey]

From what I've read the transformer has as much if not more to do with the "tube" sound as do tubes. They're making audio tube amps these days without the output transformers. It's some three letter deal like OLM or something. From what I've read they are ultra clean but not as warm. The warmth comes from the transformer. Go figure. Has anyone played the Warwick amp that has a complete low wattage pre-poweramp with output transfor into the a switch mode power section?

I'm guessing, but I bet the Hellborg's output transformer is post feeback. Like taking a regular amp and adding a output transformer. So it is probably adding resistance and thus getting that damping factor/impedance curve going. And also limiting frequency response like transformers do. But with Hellborg listening in and guiding the ultimate signature sound.

Warwick definitely has the guts to try some innovations. This and their Tubepath amps. Good job Warwick!

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Yeah, and Eric Johnson claims to be able to hear the difference between a Duracell and Energizer 9 volt batteries in his pedals.

Actually he's talking about old carbon versus alkaline batteries, and there is a distinct difference in the way they work and cause audio circuits powered by them to sound. Danelectro marketed the old style 9 volts a few years ago; don't know if they still do now.

Maybe we are just not gifted enough to be able to tell, or care about what the difference in tone is. Maybe these super-stud musicians get bored and need something new to exercise their brains on.

No. There are lots of things that sensitive players observe that have very real and measureable quantities, just as there are all kinds of popular BS 'pseudoscientific' theories as to why certain things sound the way they do. The bottom line is that if you hear something and it matters to you, then investigate why.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I'm guessing, but I bet the Hellborg's output transformer is post feeback. Like taking a regular amp and adding a output transformer. So it is probably adding resistance and thus getting that damping factor/impedance curve going. And also limiting frequency response like transformers do.

Please stop trolling using this BS. This has already been exhaustively dismissed mutliple times as fantasy and NOT sceintific phenomena, yet you insist on ignoring the facts of the matter and continue to troll discussion of anything tube or transformer related by implying that damping factor has an audible impact on bass tone.

 

[Son of Bovril]

some people just have a better trained ear, and furthermore, some people just DO have better hearing.

The question for me is, is that 6K+ bass rig gonna sound any better to an audience in a live show than the average SVT rig? I doubt it personally. I do see a place for this kind of boutique gear though and for a solo bassist or a studio session musician this could be a worthwhile investment, although there is a lot of other gear out there that is way cheaper that will probably get you the same sound IMO

 

[JimmyM]

I have to agree, Son Of. Let's not forget that even though we had great tones on recordings using Neve consoles, we've also had them with mics in front of a ton of different decidedly low-fi amplifiers. And we've had them with kids taking their cheap amps and plugging their DI's into their computers. It doesn't take top of the line gear to get top of the line sounds. More than anything, it takes a great performance. And even Jonas Hellborg would agree with that.

Still, I'm really excited about all this new gear. People are going to look back at this year and last as a truly revolutionary time in the world of bass amp technology. Preconceptions are being shattered and things I never thought possible are happening. 10 years ago if you told me I could get a 300w single speaker combo that can handle an arena stage easily and weighs less than 30 lbs. and sounds as good as any big rig, I'd have laughed in your face.

 

[Simon Langley]

Actually he's talking about old carbon versus alkaline batteries, and there is a distinct difference in the way they work and cause audio circuits powered by them to sound. Danelectro marketed the old style 9 volts a few years ago; don't know if they still do now.



No. There are lots of things that sensitive players observe that have very real and measureable quantities, just as there are all kinds of popular BS 'pseudoscientific' theories as to why certain things sound the way they do. The bottom line is that if you hear something and it matters to you, then investigate why.

WOW! You sure do know a lot.

 

[cnltb]

I got the feeling tho, that the amp may be another case of paying for the association of a well known name.
Of course I am by no means sure if that is in fact so, and it may well be the end all on bass amps, although I wouldn't expect it from warwick.
I'd sure like to check it out!!!!

 

[Beskyd]

Regarding ability of Warwick to sell these amps:

from what I know they do not have large (or even medium size) stock of their German made amps. Here if you want to buy either Tubepath, Hellborg etc., the dealer will send purchase request to the factory in Germany to assemble this or that unit (in case it's not in stock). They make most of their money from bassbags and apparel like that.
I think all this Hellborg stuff is more PR thing (I don't mean these amps are overpriced by saying this).

Anyway, guys, why having 4-5 ......n 2000-4000$ basses is OK and having one 2000-3000$ amp IS NOT? : )) Just my 2 cents.

 

[fraublugher]

 

[fdeck]

(You can thank the EU for that.)

Explain? I am curious. Lead free solder?

 

[chadds]

some people just have a better trained ear, and furthermore, some people just DO have better hearing.

The question for me is, is that 6K+ bass rig gonna sound any better to an audience in a live show than the average SVT rig? I doubt it personally. I do see a place for this kind of boutique gear though and for a solo bassist or a studio session musician this could be a worthwhile investment, although there is a lot of other gear out there that is way cheaper that will probably get you the same sound IMO

Sure it can. If you aren't after that glorious SVT sound. If we are going to play gear for the lowest common demoninator of listeners then let's go get those Peavey TNTs out of the closet. You know you have one I have heard beautiful sound live in many parts of this world that was partially the players choice of rigs. In Nashville I heard Vince Gill with Michael Rhodes on bass playing an old Trace head through an SWR Henry 8x8. Wow. The reason we hear it is that the house systems have improved and are very expensive.
Why do we get into these price discussions? Yes I can find a bar where the patrons don't care. I do, so I play what gets me my sound. One night it's hi-end boutique the next an SWR LA-8 and an old G&L. Total rig cost? $375. I did sound real good too.
Innovation trickles down and we all benefit at all price points.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I've let my subscription lapse a couple of times over the years because I've been disappointed in it, but now that it's pretty much the only widely available bass print publication. I just suck it up and hope to glean something useful out of it. It's bathroom reading material, after all.

Try this:

www.bassguitarmagazine.com/

 

[JimmyM]

I have heard beautiful sound live in many parts of this world that was partially the players choice of rigs. In Nashville I heard Vince Gill with Michael Rhodes on bass playing an old Trace head through an SWR Henry 8x8. Wow. The reason we hear it is that the house systems have improved and are very expensive.
Why do we get into these price discussions? Yes I can find a bar where the patrons don't care. I do, so I play what gets me my sound. One night it's hi-end boutique the next an SWR LA-8 and an old G&L. Total rig cost? $375. I did sound real good too.
Innovation trickles down and we all benefit at all price points.

That's right. The early adapters pay out the wazoo for having technology a year or two before anyone else. Guys like me can afford it about 5 years later, but then we all can have it by that point

I can't see how people aren't completely blown away over amps like this Hellborg rig regardless of the price and regardless whether it works like Hellborg says it does. It is now entirely possible to have true tube sound from solid state equipment, at least in the clean department. I've heard it from my Markbass, and I own the two tube amps that all others are judged by. One's broken, but that's beside the point. And if the Hellborg rig works like he says it does, then we will finally be able to recreate the sound of power amp tubes breaking up in that special way without tubes. And if it's not the true solution, it's close enough to where someone will find out the real solution soon. And then it's a whole new level of revolution in the amp world. Then it will just be a race to see who can make a 300-watt amp that sounds like an SVT and fits in your pocket without burning your nads

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Explain? I am curious. Lead free solder?

Yep. Surface mount components basically use the entire contact point as a heat sink. Lead free solder has a lower melting point AND is mechanically unstable to start with. That equals major problems just waiting to happen.

 

[Son of Bovril]

I love the fact that bass technology is advancing so fast while guitar technology is sooo much slower It's nice to be on the cutting edge for a change!

 

[JimmyM]

Well don't expect it to last long, Son Of. You can bet your butt that everyone in the industry is taking notice of what Markbass and Warwick are doing with bass amps and figuring out how to incorporate their innovations into guitar amps. I'd bet every dollar I had that Markbass is probably working on one as we speak. They've already gotten into acoustic instrument amps and pro audio. Guitar amps are inevitable. And then they'll finally have the last laugh, just like they always do, the scum!

 

[Michael Vee]

The Bass Player review article stated multi-thousand dollar prices on each piece of the Hellborg gear. Those are the prices a purchaser in the U.S. would probably pay. I'm idly wondering how much it would cost to buy these Warwick pieces in Germany using Euros - what the equivalent amount would be in dollars, and how much would be saved.

Of course, the savings would be wiped out by transporting the pieces back over here.

 

[JMX]

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WARWICK JH MP50 HELLBORG POWER AMP 1366 EUR

WARWICK JH PR40 HELLBORG PREAMP 1444 EUR

WARWICK JH LC 115 HELLBORG LO CAB 633 EUR

WARWICK JH SP25 HELLBORG POWER AMP 1555 EUR

WARWICK JH BC 215 HELLBORG BIG CAB 1069 EUR

WARWICK JH CC 115 HELLBORG CLUB CAB 732 EUR

WARWICK JH HC 212 HELLBORG HI CAB 679 EUR

WARWICK JH MP25 HELLBORG POWER AMP 1169 EUR

 

[Mika]

Yep. Surface mount components basically use the entire contact point as a heat sink. Lead free solder has a lower melting point AND is mechanically unstable to start with. That equals major problems just waiting to happen.

This is why critical applications (medical, law enforcement etc.) are not under the RoHS directive...

 

[tombowlus]

I love the idea of a 212 wizzy cabinet.

So did Steve Azola, so he made these.