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Warwick Hellborg amp reviewed in BP

#61
rockstarbassist said:
I'm just sayin... It's the same thing. Top tier quality demands (and gets!) top tier price tags.
It's the same when people whine about Foderas or CT's, etc.. You don't need like tons of them, and it's not like you'll need to replace it anytime soon, or like, ever! :p
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+1.. just having fun:). I actually agree with you all the way, and per my previous post, I think Warwick has a bigger plan, of which this uber high end stuff is part of the 'means to an end'.

I love trying to get into these guys' heads when a somewhat 'strange' product comes down the pike (by strange, I mean a product that will almost surely be a failure by any volume/profit/sales measures). Sometimes, it's just cluelessness or 'wishful thinking' on the part of the manufacturer. This seems like something else to me, and I think they have a plan.
 
#62
KJung said:
+1.. just having fun:). I actually agree with you all the way, and per my previous post, I think Warwick has a bigger plan, of which this uber high end stuff is part of the 'means to an end'.

I love trying to get into these guys' heads when a somewhat 'strange' product comes down the pike (by strange, I mean a product that will almost surely be a failure by any volume/profit/sales measures). Sometimes, it's just cluelessness or 'wishful thinking' on the part of the manufacturer. This seems like something else to me, and I think they have a plan.
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Of course!

Yeah for the time and effort, and apparently finished product, they had to know there was demand for something like this, or at least you'd hope. Especially coming from a majority-bass manuf like Warwick. I wonder too how many people Hellborg shopped prior to sticking with Warwick?
 
#64
A side note about the whole "Neve" marketing angle- there are loads of companies making Neve clones or designs based on Neve concepts; over in the "pro audio" world you can't spit without hitting a product based on Neve or a person babbling about it. Not knocking the Hellborg, just saying it's far from unique.
 
#66
Psycho Bass Guy said:
I'm not talking about high quality silver solder. I'm talking about the new low-grade lead free stuff used to meet EU spec. Jerrold Tiers had an excellent post about it awhile back.
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The only posts I found with Jerrold talking about lead-free solder were the production difficulties and the link to the article about tin whiskers and other problems with lead-free solder joints. Nothing about melting point. A quick survey of the mostly-tin, lead-free electrical solders available at Newark and DigiKey shows that all have a melting temp 40-50 deg. F higher than good ol' 60-40 tin-lead.

Asad
 
#67
asad137 said:
The only posts I found with Jerrold talking about lead-free solder were the production difficulties and the link to the article about tin whiskers and other problems with lead-free solder joints. Nothing about melting point. A quick survey of the mostly-tin, lead-free electrical solders available at Newark and DigiKey shows that all have a melting temp 40-50 deg. F higher than good ol' 60-40 tin-lead.

Asad
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Again, I'm not talking about GOOD solder. I'm talking about the cheap crap getting used on the commercial level. Jerrold's post about the melting point is a good bit older than the one about tin whiskers. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: I couldn't find the post I was thinking of, however, there IS a mention of the two different kinds of solder in the 'tin whiskers' article, so for anybody interested, here's a link to it: Invalid Link Removed

It mentions the new "environmental" tin solder I am talking about and the higher melting point copper/silver solder these other guys are talking about.
 
#68
I may be missing the specific line you're referring to, but ATM I don't see any reference at all in that article to any form of lead-free solder in common use having a low melting point. Can you quote the exact line?

BTW, I'm not defending lead-free, it really does suck for all the reasons that are mentioned in that article.
 
#69
bongomania said:
A side note about the whole "Neve" marketing angle- there are loads of companies making Neve clones or designs based on Neve concepts; over in the "pro audio" world you can't spit without hitting a product based on Neve or a person babbling about it. Not knocking the Hellborg, just saying it's far from unique.
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I agree with this in general, but not in the bass ampification market. I do actually think that designing this type of rig specifically for bass is at least somewhat new in the bass amplification market. However, does that make it a good idea? No. My guess is they will sell about 10 of these in total. However, per my post earlier, unless this company is clueless (which they might be), I have a feeling this might be seen an interesting way to raise the awareness and interest in their primary product line, build buzz and distribution, etc. In some ways, it's already working. When was the last time you saw a 'Warwick Amp' thread:D

Just musing on this, since the product itself (pricing, design, wattage, etc.) doesn't really make much sense to me. That drives my feeling that they are using this product more as a promotional tool and a 'high end quality anchor' to their normal product line versus really thinking the boxes will generate much interest themselves. Who knows!
 
#71
I was looking forward to the review, but was turned off when they said something akin to "the rig is as expensive as a car". Where? In 1978? My last car was north of 30k, and it was average. Many of my friends have cars that are > 50k. It's not the 70's anymore. Good stuff costs money. And there are plenty of people earning money. 6 or 8k for a bass amp is no more out of line as 8k for a custom shop Les Paul, 12k for an Alembic Bass, 20k for B & W speakers, 6k for a Wolfe Stove, 2k for an Armani suit. If I was a pro player, or serious hobbiest, I'd look at the Warwick.
Right now, I have a Matchless DC-30 worth ~3500, a Reinhardt, Clark, Dr Z and Rivera and a couple of others, and I'm just a typical gear head.
Amps2.jpg


I don't know what the fuss is about. Try buying a Dumble or Trainwreck and see what an amp can cost!
 
#72
As far as I read, the only mention of melting point was that lead decreases the melting point of solder. Which is in line with the spec-ed melting points for lead free solders I've seen.

bongomania said:
I may be missing the specific line you're referring to, but ATM I don't see any reference at all in that article to any form of lead-free solder in common use having a low melting point. Can you quote the exact line?
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#73
zekmoe said:
I was looking forward to the review, but was turned off when they said something akin to "the rig is as expensive as a car". Where? In 1978? My last car was north of 30k, and it was average. Many of my friends have cars that are > 50k. It's not the 70's anymore. Good stuff costs money. And there are plenty of people earning money. 6 or 8k for a bass amp is no more out of line as 8k for a custom shop Les Paul, 12k for an Alembic Bass, 20k for B & W speakers, 6k for a Wolfe Stove, 2k for an Armani suit. If I was a pro player, or serious hobbiest, I'd look at the Warwick.
Right now, I have a Matchless DC-30 worth ~3500, a Reinhardt, Clark, Dr Z and Rivera and a couple of others, and I'm just a typical gear head.
Amps2.jpg


I don't know what the fuss is about. Try buying a Dumble or Trainwreck and see what an amp can cost!
Click to expand...

Now that is one beautiful 'family photo.' :cool:
 
#74
Single Channel AMS NEVE pre amps are ~ $4K US

to me the Hellborg pre is the most compelling component in the line. If it can be used > your A/D and the circuitry is close to what the top discreet pre folks are doing (Brent, Wade, Geoff, Tony etc)

I could see paring it with a lower wattage all tube head for a killer recording set up
 
#75
Wel, I see that most of the people here didn't had direct contact with the JH equipment. All I can tell you is that I played few W basses (Streamer Stage 2, Streamer LX, Corvette Bubinga custom & FNA Jazzmann LTD 2004) amplified in JH preamp & 500w power amp & WCA 811 neodyme cab. The sound is very warm, felt like a coat on me. Not to many swiches to use, EQ on 0 and the sound is great! So, if I'd had the money, at list the preamp would be mine with no second thought.
 
#76
I have been a subscriber to Bass Player since issue 1 - I have them all. I too have been disenchanted with the magazine of late. It seems all the players that they feature are into grunge or Alternative genres. I sometimes think that they go out on the street, stop the first person they see, ask if they play bass and if so, write an article about them. They sure as hell seldom cover country players. I have tried to listen to some of the guys/gals they do feature to open my mind. Most don't last too long in the CD player.

In regards to the Warwick amplifier, when I saw the first ads for the system, oh man did I ever want one. The lighted controls, as Tom Bowlus opined, were stunning. Then I realized that what I was looking at was a pre-amp on top of a power amp. I though the pre was the whole thing with a "digital" power amp and supply all built into a one rack space unit. I an no longer interested in acquiring one.

The hype that was contained in the BP piece was incredible. As PBG says the SVT mid control is inductive. Selmer amps in the Sixties had inductors in their eq sections and many other amps have too. Warwick has nothing new there. To put an OPT in a SS amp is, IMO, just a waste of iron and money. The amp must weigh a ton! I'll bet that if you could take a gander at the schematic it'll be just a standard class AB amp. Sure it will have the best "bits" in it that money can buy but folks who build their own amps have been doing that for years.

I have to admit that I am a little anti Warwick. I bought one of the first Streamers brought into Canada and I loved it. When I wanted a B string I searched for a Warwick five that had the same feel and sound as my Streamer. Not one of them had anything special, they were all generic feeling with necks like baseball bats and no EMGs. I ended up with a Carvin six and never looked back.

Paul
 
#77
I'm trying to remove Warwick from the equation, even though I feel the same way as you do about their basses. I think Jonas' logic in using the output transformer is solid, but from what others have said about power amps they've owned with OPT's, it probably isn't the great secret to unlocking tube sound in transistors like Jonas claims. Still, I'm sure it sounds wonderful, and I look forward to seeing some of its design characteristics trickle down to gear that I would buy (sorry, but there's no way in hell I'd ever spend $7000 on a preamp and power amp).
 
#78
JimmyM said:
And look, 90% of good tone is playing well. The gear you use means nothing, ultimately. Look how many truly great tones on recordings have come out of some very inexpensive amps. Fender Bassmans, B-15's, Sunns, Marshalls, Laneys, Crates, whatever. Why were those tones great? Because the player did an outstanding job of playing.
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Whilst something of an aside from the main focus of the thread, and whilst I certainly don't disagree about " the players did an outstanding job of playing" part, I do think it's important to take into consideration that in many cases those "inexpensive amps" may have been a big factor in the tones those players produced, and often in a positive way. Not everyone wants hifi, and hifi doesn't always equate to great tone; that's a matter of preference and context.

Many of my favourite-sounding players played through gritty-sounding Marshalls, and part of the reason they sound great to me is because they played through gritty-sounding Marshalls, not despite it. I've read many threads where the implication seems to be that the best amps are "uncoloured, so that your bass sounds exactly how it really sounds" or truly hifi, as if this is an absolute. This is only true if the end result is actually a sound you like and which works in context. To my mind (and ears), bass and amp should work hand in hand with each other to provide a preferred sound. This may mean you get your preferred tone with expensive, sophisticated gear, or with cheap gear. One of the reasons I hate DI-ing in the studio is because I've yet to find a studio or engineer that can give me a sound I like DI-d. And that's not because I can't play (despite what some might think ;)), it's because my tonal preferences go in a different direction. Personally I'd far sooner play many of my basses through an old Marshall Superbass than any amount of far more sophisticated EA gear, for instance (although I am in no way saying anyone else should feel the same) however there are some basses I feel differently about. It's all about the interaction of the bass AND the amp; how they work together to produce the tone you require. How many guitarists would be lost without Marshall? I don't really agree with the point that gear isn't important and that it's just down to how you play. If I'm not hearing something I like, I don't play well. That may just be me, but I doubt it. Some players just play and let their amplifier amplify them pretty much regardless; doubtless they get a similar tone whatever they use. But others (and I'm one) use the amplifier as much as the instrument; it's very much a part of their sound.

None of which has anything to do with whether or not this amp sounds great or is worth the money:D. Great looking gear, although I'm not sure about the knobs:hmm:. I do applaud anyone for thinking slightly outside the box though! Sorry, point made (I hope) and not meant as a criticism in any way so please don't take it as such; on with the thread!
 
#79
No offense taken whatsoever. I agree wholeheartedly. The player should play on gear that speaks to them and makes them want to play. All I'm saying is that gear that's ill-suited to you or not so high quality can easily be overcome by the mere act of playing well.
 
#80
Psychicpet said:
I'm sure that the pre sounds nice but really, this pre is supposed to be the bees knees AND it really is a tweaked Neve :smug:

Invalid Link Removed


I got hipped to Invalid Link Removed a while back from someone with big ears that's 'owned' everything and has and still does make a great living playing bass and producing and he said that this preamp was the final word in bass pre's of course it'll sweeten up any vocal, guitar mic, drum mic, etc... :D
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jeebus,

despite the weird red and blue knobs, that's a gorgeous preamp.

and you have NOT heard your bass, until you've heard it thru a neve desk. :cool:
 

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