i dunno,
the dollar is soooo weak against the euro regardless, you'd probably lose regardless.
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Warwick Hellborg amp reviewed in BP
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
i dunno,
the dollar is soooo weak against the euro regardless, you'd probably lose regardless.
yea, but who's brought it to the attention of the everyday bassist?
taylor acoustics tried doing the same with their rupert neve designed onboard preamps, and they're selling like wildfire now.
but for warwick to make this kind of splash on the neve idea in a really high money price tag is gonna be hard for many to swallow. guess the gents at warwick are hoping for the same kind of hype, but in a more "trickle down" effect kinda way for their lower amp/cab lines.
*shrug*
Now that is one beautiful 'family photo.'
uh oh...
only a matter of time before tom becomes... *gulp* a guitar player?!?!
I was looking forward to the review, but was turned off when they said something akin to "the rig is as expensive as a car". Where? In 1978? My last car was north of 30k, and it was average. Many of my friends have cars that are > 50k. It's not the 70's anymore. Good stuff costs money. And there are plenty of people earning money. 6 or 8k for a bass amp is no more out of line as 8k for a custom shop Les Paul, 12k for an Alembic Bass, 20k for B & W speakers, 6k for a Wolfe Stove, 2k for an Armani suit. If I was a pro player, or serious hobbiest, I'd look at the Warwick.
Right now, I have a Matchless DC-30 worth ~3500, a Reinhardt, Clark, Dr Z and Rivera and a couple of others, and I'm just a typical gear head.
I don't know what the fuss is about. Try buying a Dumble or Trainwreck and see what an amp can cost!
and sweet setup!
gearpager, i presume?
I don't think that Trainwreck is a fair comparison. Ken did pass away after all so his amps are no longer being made. I miss that man!
Paul
Paul
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,518
- 19,954
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
uh oh...
only a matter of time before tom becomes... *gulp* a guitar player?!?!
Well, I currently am a guitar player. A really, really bad one, but I do have some skinny-stringers tucked away in that basement, somewhere.
I can see there is a strong anti Warwick movement on this forum.
I think this is silly, because Warwick brings some very personal tipes of sound (see SSII or thumb bass) that all the warwick haters will miss just from ignorance. A good musician should be mind opened, and try what's good for him no matter what the brand is. Not giving Warwick a chance is a mistake,
I personally converted with my gear a lot of Warwick haters... And it was easy really. Because not many basses will match a thumb NT or Streamer Stage II in personality, and balls.
You see the problem is that most of the guys are " anti Warwick" but they actually have no clue how they really are.
That's human nature.
And this is the reason we have so many players with ****** sound. Not because they don't play Warwick, of course, because it is not necessarily the best option for them, but because they are not even looking with open mind to different brands.
For example one of the best sounding basses I ever owned was a $300 Aslin Dane, Music Man copy. It sounded actually better than the original.
Speaking of the Hellborg line of amplification, because this is the topic, I have a full rig. Preamp, Mono Power 500, and Big Cab.
All I want to say is that the BP review is not even preparing you for the experience of playing this rig with your band, especially if you are used with average gear like tubepath, or SVT. I am not talking about trying this in the store, I wasn't too impressed in the store either. The truth is when you take this stuff live, or in the studio.
Does this sound better than a SVT? Hell yeah!!!!
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Ampeg! I used an old SVT 2 before (non pro). And I thought I cannot live without that gritty sound, because this is the sound I actually like.
But in a band a bass should be heard well in the first place. You should have a solid full range bass sound, to cut through these days. Even if I like the Ampeg flavor, the Hellborg is much more consistent in a band context. I play with the same sound engineer live for over 5 years, and the Hellborg preamp gave the first DI signal that really impressed him. He wasn't really my friend untill then.
When I thought nothing will impress me more, the Big Cab came last week....
Please listen these A/B tests:
This is Warwick 811 ND with NEO speakers, A pretty bright open sounding cab:
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
And this is the Hellborg Big Cab:
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
These recordings were made with a Shure condenser (sorry, forgot the model), at 1m ( 3 feet) distance from the center of the cabinets.
It is a lo fi rec, it is not actually 100% how the cabs sounds (for example you don't hear how deep is the Hellborg cab too ) but it is enough to hear the difference between the two of them, and have a good idea what I am talking about... Consider that Warwick's 811 ND is brighter, and has more definition than an Ampeg 8 X 10.
You know what is the difference between a regular rig and this one? It's like the way you feel when you start playing your bass in the studio, in that fancy room, with those high end speakers... You know what I am talking about? That warm feeling, and comfort that you never have live, or at the rehearsals room...
Well I always have this kind of feeling now
First thing I want to say about this rig is that is making me feel very comfortable, surrounded by a massive bass sound , without being loud.
I am sorry for my long post, and I know the Warwick haters will hate Warwick even more now, but for those who are looking for a good, over average sound, just don't cut Hellborg from the list because you heard that on the forum. Just give it a try
I think this is silly, because Warwick brings some very personal tipes of sound (see SSII or thumb bass) that all the warwick haters will miss just from ignorance. A good musician should be mind opened, and try what's good for him no matter what the brand is. Not giving Warwick a chance is a mistake,
I personally converted with my gear a lot of Warwick haters... And it was easy really. Because not many basses will match a thumb NT or Streamer Stage II in personality, and balls.
You see the problem is that most of the guys are " anti Warwick" but they actually have no clue how they really are.
That's human nature.
And this is the reason we have so many players with ****** sound. Not because they don't play Warwick, of course, because it is not necessarily the best option for them, but because they are not even looking with open mind to different brands.
For example one of the best sounding basses I ever owned was a $300 Aslin Dane, Music Man copy. It sounded actually better than the original.
Speaking of the Hellborg line of amplification, because this is the topic, I have a full rig. Preamp, Mono Power 500, and Big Cab.
All I want to say is that the BP review is not even preparing you for the experience of playing this rig with your band, especially if you are used with average gear like tubepath, or SVT. I am not talking about trying this in the store, I wasn't too impressed in the store either. The truth is when you take this stuff live, or in the studio.
Does this sound better than a SVT? Hell yeah!!!!
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Ampeg! I used an old SVT 2 before (non pro). And I thought I cannot live without that gritty sound, because this is the sound I actually like.
But in a band a bass should be heard well in the first place. You should have a solid full range bass sound, to cut through these days. Even if I like the Ampeg flavor, the Hellborg is much more consistent in a band context. I play with the same sound engineer live for over 5 years, and the Hellborg preamp gave the first DI signal that really impressed him. He wasn't really my friend untill then.
When I thought nothing will impress me more, the Big Cab came last week....
Please listen these A/B tests:
This is Warwick 811 ND with NEO speakers, A pretty bright open sounding cab:
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
And this is the Hellborg Big Cab:
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
These recordings were made with a Shure condenser (sorry, forgot the model), at 1m ( 3 feet) distance from the center of the cabinets.
It is a lo fi rec, it is not actually 100% how the cabs sounds (for example you don't hear how deep is the Hellborg cab too ) but it is enough to hear the difference between the two of them, and have a good idea what I am talking about... Consider that Warwick's 811 ND is brighter, and has more definition than an Ampeg 8 X 10.
You know what is the difference between a regular rig and this one? It's like the way you feel when you start playing your bass in the studio, in that fancy room, with those high end speakers... You know what I am talking about? That warm feeling, and comfort that you never have live, or at the rehearsals room...
Well I always have this kind of feeling now
First thing I want to say about this rig is that is making me feel very comfortable, surrounded by a massive bass sound , without being loud. I am sorry for my long post, and I know the Warwick haters will hate Warwick even more now, but for those who are looking for a good, over average sound, just don't cut Hellborg from the list because you heard that on the forum. Just give it a try
You don't really believe that, do you? Warwick basses are easily available in any GC or Sam Ash.
wow. huge difference there!
I can easily hear how the Hellborg cab will cut and sit in a live mix far better than the trad. cab
I can easily hear how the Hellborg cab will cut and sit in a live mix far better than the trad. cab
bongomania
Commercial User
I just went back and re-read the whole thread, and in five pages of posts the only "Warwick hating" I could find was two people who said they "chuckle about Warwick" and one person who said they were "usually anti-Warwick", and in all three cases they went on to say that this Hellborg amp rig looked pretty sweet.
All other comments that were "negative" only said it was too expensive, or (in my case) that it wasn't as unique as they claimed. Far from "Warwick hating".
Edit: oh and great clips of the cabs! I do hear the difference and I agree the Warwick cab is much more cutting and "present" sounding.
Unfortunately, the Hellborg clips distorted pretty badly for me. What I could hear around the distortion sounded pretty massive, though a bit on the bright side.
My opinion? I'd get one in a heartbeat if I could get an endorsement. Just could not afford it, no way.
- Aug 21, 2003
- 11,621
- 18,707
- Disclosures
- A-Designs Mike Lull GK Tsunami Cables GHS Strings RMI Basswitch Nordstrand Pickups Darkglass
I sought one out to try when I first heard about it...(Since Jonas is my favorite player) and to me if He puts his name on it its probably something thats pretty intense and gives him what He wants.
Well lets just say this...
I thought it kicked @ss in plain english.
However take this from a guy who does not mine the sound of His Cafe Walter.
To be honest the simpler and purer the better IMHO.
I would rather plug directly into a power amp (with some sort of signal boosting device then use something like a SWR or Ampeg pre instead).
All and all I dug the Hellborg gear.
Well lets just say this...
I thought it kicked @ss in plain english.
However take this from a guy who does not mine the sound of His Cafe Walter.
To be honest the simpler and purer the better IMHO.
I would rather plug directly into a power amp (with some sort of signal boosting device then use something like a SWR or Ampeg pre instead).
All and all I dug the Hellborg gear.
Sorry, the sound card was clipping. The clip doesn't make justice to the cabinet at all, you hear the difference between the two of them, not the actual sound.
The cabinet is not on the bright side really, that's what the mike took from the sound. In reality "Big" and " Hi- Fi" would describe it better. It's really impressive. It's like playing your bass trough one of those huge studio monitors.
I've read the topic once again, and I must apologize for the "Warwick haters" thing... I was wrong.
The BP test was a typical "description without committing to the fact that it might bite or be great" review. The only criticisms I've heard were price for what you're getting, limited watts and the size of the cabs. I own almost every Jonas Hellborg CD. I love his playing. I don't like his electric tone.
Where I have loved his tone is when he is using his new acoustic/electric bass. I've heard many folks using the same electric gear over the years who have a no muddy distorted squawk. Again I love his playing. There is a live cut of him playing his new acoustic electric through Hartke and it's great. Perhaps he found an instrument that responds to his touch and it was never his amps.
The few clips I've heard of the Warwick rig did not bowl me over. To pony up that much cash it might have to be the second coming of sliced bread.
That it sounds better than an SVT is not much of a reference. An SVT is a reference sound all of it's own. It is unique and stands as an icon of a certain sound of a genre and decades of music. It spans the smokey hot blues and R&B clubs to outside rock festivals to metal. Everyone doesn't prefer it's characteristic sound for every form of music. I doubt there is a rig that can be a better SVT. Different? Oh yeah. I would certainly not take a lot of hi tech to make an SVT when easily available vintage and reissues abound. So for that cash it ought to do it all, clarity, fullness, responsiveness, accuracy, punch, volume and be able to get you a date before you finish tuning up.
Where I have loved his tone is when he is using his new acoustic/electric bass. I've heard many folks using the same electric gear over the years who have a no muddy distorted squawk. Again I love his playing. There is a live cut of him playing his new acoustic electric through Hartke and it's great. Perhaps he found an instrument that responds to his touch and it was never his amps.
The few clips I've heard of the Warwick rig did not bowl me over. To pony up that much cash it might have to be the second coming of sliced bread.
That it sounds better than an SVT is not much of a reference. An SVT is a reference sound all of it's own. It is unique and stands as an icon of a certain sound of a genre and decades of music. It spans the smokey hot blues and R&B clubs to outside rock festivals to metal. Everyone doesn't prefer it's characteristic sound for every form of music. I doubt there is a rig that can be a better SVT. Different? Oh yeah. I would certainly not take a lot of hi tech to make an SVT when easily available vintage and reissues abound. So for that cash it ought to do it all, clarity, fullness, responsiveness, accuracy, punch, volume and be able to get you a date before you finish tuning up.
Well, do you recognize Jonas sound in my clips? I doubt it
Because I am using a "John Entwistle" kind of bass.
The Hellborg rig is simply reproducing your bass's true sound. If you want some tube grit into your sound, you can use a EH English Muff'n linked in the parrallel effect loop for example, and you'll have a nice vintage sound, (with the proper bass) but with a much better performance.
I used them both, for a fairly long period of time, and I know what I am talking about, at least for my needs. I play in a band with 2 keyboard players, 3 backing vocals, a guitar that is everywhere, computers, loud drummer, and big baritone vocal. Every quality progress I made was translated into a better bass in the mix. The Hellborg rig was by far the best improvement in my sound, and comfort on stage.
If I'd have to chose between my 8500 EUR bass and this rig, I would definetly prefer to play a medium quality instrument with my Hellborg rig, than my actual bass with everything else I tried so far.
Sorry I forgot to tell, it was the Hellborg preamp with the eq switched off, Mono power 500, and this bass:
Invalid Link Removed
with both pickups, no piezo, and passive tone controls opened
Once again, all the respect for Ampeg, and other beautiful amps. All I want to say is that sometimes (not always) you really can hear the extra cash invested in your sound.
Peace!
Because I am using a "John Entwistle" kind of bass
.The Hellborg rig is simply reproducing your bass's true sound. If you want some tube grit into your sound, you can use a EH English Muff'n linked in the parrallel effect loop for example, and you'll have a nice vintage sound, (with the proper bass) but with a much better performance.
I used them both, for a fairly long period of time, and I know what I am talking about, at least for my needs. I play in a band with 2 keyboard players, 3 backing vocals, a guitar that is everywhere, computers, loud drummer, and big baritone vocal. Every quality progress I made was translated into a better bass in the mix. The Hellborg rig was by far the best improvement in my sound, and comfort on stage.
If I'd have to chose between my 8500 EUR bass and this rig, I would definetly prefer to play a medium quality instrument with my Hellborg rig, than my actual bass with everything else I tried so far.
Sorry I forgot to tell, it was the Hellborg preamp with the eq switched off, Mono power 500, and this bass:
Invalid Link Removed
with both pickups, no piezo, and passive tone controls opened
Once again, all the respect for Ampeg, and other beautiful amps. All I want to say is that sometimes (not always) you really can hear the extra cash invested in your sound.
Peace!
Florin... that bass rocks!!
I love the dual P's!!!
as for the Hellborg, yep, would love to have that preamp with me not only live but for walking into a session and having something that'll give the Avalon U5 (AMAZING box for sure) a rest
I love the dual P's!!!
as for the Hellborg, yep, would love to have that preamp with me not only live but for walking into a session and having something that'll give the Avalon U5 (AMAZING box for sure) a rest
Well, do you recognize Jonas sound in my clips? I doubt it
Because I am using a "John Entwistle" kind of bass
The Hellborg rig is simply reproducing your bass's true sound. If you want some tube grit into your sound, you can use a EH English Muff'n linked in the parrallel effect loop for example, and you'll have a nice vintage sound, (with the proper bass) but with a much better performance.
I used them both, for a fairly long period of time, and I know what I am talking about, at least for my needs. I play in a band with 2 keyboard players, 3 backing vocals, a guitar that is everywhere, computers, loud drummer, and big baritone vocal. Every quality progress I made was translated into a better bass in the mix. The Hellborg rig was by far the best improvement in my sound, and comfort on stage.
If I'd have to chose between my 8500 EUR bass and this rig, I would definetly prefer to play a medium quality instrument with my Hellborg rig, than my actual bass with everything else I tried so far.
Sorry I forgot to tell, it was the Hellborg preamp with the eq switched off, Mono power 500, and this bass:
Invalid Link Removed
with both pickups, no piezo, and passive tone controls opened
Once again, all the respect for Ampeg, and other beautiful amps. All I want to say is that sometimes (not always) you really can hear the extra cash invested in your sound.
Peace!
Luca I am not questioning your selection of gear. That's for you and only you to decide. I'm responding to the "anti warwick" phrase of yours when there has been very little criticism about this rig here. I am taking exception to the fact that something has to be good because it is "signature". If the artist's sound bites why would I want gear that he thinks sounds good? Again I love his acoustic work, his playing and worldly approach. I use very effective gear and it gets my sound. I would try this stuff in a minute, the pre especially, yet I'm very satisfied with my gear. Yes, you can hear the extra cash spent.
