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Washington Redskins name

#221
Gravedigger Dav said:
1. A label cannot be racists if it not an offensive term. Our PC society has made labels racist that were never intended to be because somebody didn't like the term.
2. I only know of one liberal activist american native that is campaigning against that and Braves. Her objection to Braves shows how misinformed she is. I believe she wants to be famous. Who am I missing?
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1. Redskin is racist because it is an offensive term.

2. There are links throughout this thread, as well as google if you are curious as to who all is for changing the team name. BTW, also stated in this thread, this has been going on for decades. Only recently has reached the national spotlight as much as it has because the activists finally realized that you have to use loud, angsty youngsters (the PC monster! wwhwoooooo!!!!) to get your point across

3 (bonus!). Also in the thread is an anecdote about Susan Harjo saying "Redskin is the name they called us in Oklahoma while they were beating us up in the street." Maybe she imagined it...
 
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#222
Now that I have given this some thought, the term refers to the color of their skin, so how could that not be racially motivated?

I mostly agree that PC stuff is or of control, but this is offensive. While their are other offensive names out there, that shouldn't be an excuse. The native American "nation" wants to change it. To them it may be as offensive as a team called "The *******" would be to blacks.
 
#223
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#225
Gravedigger Dav said:
According the the native americans and tribes that have been questioned about this, they are not offended and don't see the problem. So how can it be racist if they don't think it's racist?

If they change the Washington name, they have to change the name of the Yankees. Yankee was a word the Dutch used as a derogatory term for the English on Manhatten Island.
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You're just choosing to be insensitive. I get it. I've been there, man.

macaroni tony said:
I agree...from where I stand "Braves" in itself was never a slur used against Natives.
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I don't know if Brave is a slur, but in any case it doesn't seem right to have mascots that are a nation of people. I know there's "The Fighting Irish" but that's a stupid one anyway. In this country you name teams Bears, Tigers, Earthquakes, Lazers, whatever BS... to use the name of a nation seems disrespectful.

The Sioux vs the Hornets! The Cherokee vs The Ducks! Doesn't seem right.
 
#227
tastybasslines said:
I deserve that.
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just messing with ya - although, yeah, the color thing is what it's all about.

matante said:
You're just choosing to be insensitive. I get it. I've been there, man.



I don't know if Brave is a slur, but in any case it doesn't seem right to have mascots that are a nation of people. I know there's "The Fighting Irish" but that's a stupid one anyway. In this country you name teams Bears, Tigers, Earthquakes, Lazers, whatever BS... to use the name of a nation seems disrespectful.

The Sioux vs the Hornets! The Cherokee vs The Ducks! Doesn't seem right.
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You forgot the Vikings. And Earthquakes vs. Bears is just darn weird.

It looks like the Redskins are trying to segue into using the more realistic Native American drawing than the cheesy smiling fool caricature.
 
#228
edpal said:
just messing with ya - although, yeah, the color thing is what it's all about.

You forgot the Vikings. And Earthquakes vs. Bears is just darn weird.

It looks like the Redskins are trying to segue into using the more realistic Native American drawing than the cheesy smiling fool caricature.
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The Vikings represent a state that is filled with people of Swedish descent. If those people complained about the name, it would be gone in a second.

There is an MLS team named the San Jose Earthquakes--one of the worst names in sports, along with Denver Nuggets.
 
#230
matante said:
The Vikings represent a state that is filled with people of Swedish descent. If those people complained about the name, it would be gone in a second.
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The Swedes do not have sole claim to the Vikings - Sweden makes up less than 1/3 of the area(made up of Norway,Denmark and Sweden) referred to as Scandinavia. Minnesotans were American's last time I checked, most have little cultural affiliation with their Scandinavian roots.

What the heck is your issue with the Denver Nuggets?
 
#231
edpal said:
The Swedes do not have sole claim to the Vikings - Sweden makes up less than 1/3 of the area(made up of Norway,Denmark and Sweden) referred to as Scandinavia. Minnesotans were American's last time I checked, most have little cultural affiliation with their Scandinavian roots.

What the heck is your issue with the Denver Nuggets?
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I know the Vikings were spread across Scandinavia, but Minnesota is full of people of Swedish descent, specifically, not from all over Scandinavia. That really is why they named the team The Vikings. Look it up if you don't believe me.

I have no beef with the Nuggets.
 
#232
Gravedigger Dav said:
1. A label cannot be racists if it not an offensive term. Our PC society has made labels racist that were never intended to be because somebody didn't like the term.
2. I only know of one liberal activist american native that is campaigning against that and Braves. Her objection to Braves shows how misinformed she is. I believe she wants to be famous. Who am I missing?
3. I didn't say is was a racist term, it was originally a slur on people of English heritage. Is a term not offensive because it doesn't refer to race?

I quote:
Professor Luvell Anderson of the University of Memphis, in his paper "Slurring Words", argues that for a word to be a slur, the word must communicate ideas beyond identifying a target group, and that, slurs are offensive because the additional data contained in those words differentiates those individuals from otherwise accepted groups.
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1. It is a racist term. It is offensive. I am a big believer in PC society up to a point. I am not in favor of the majority using language to keep others down, and I never will be.
2. It doesn't matter what you know of. I have been to pow wows in South Dakota where there was chanting and rituals by entire tribes that despise the term being used by a commercial sports team, and their children having to be subjected to this nonsense. This should have been stopped decades ago.
3. I have lost interest in this aspect of the discussion.

Professor Luvell Anderson of the University of Memphis can bite me.
 
#236
mellowinman said:
I am a big believer in PC society up to a point.
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This is a very brave thing to say nowadays. "PC" has become like a scarlet letter - or letters - slapped onto anyone who dares show a little consideration for someone else's racial or ethnic point of view.

"Politically correct" was a loaded term from the start. I like to think of "PC" as "properly considerate." When a racial/ethnic term, phrase or image has a clearly hurtful - and in many cases, tragic - history, I think we should care.
 
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#238
So... is there some other reason for keeping the name other than if it changes the "PC People" or whatever tag that some need to put on people win? Why is the name so important to KEEP?

Washington could change the name and it wouldn't have to have any Native American connotation... because other than the unfortunate name it has nothing to do with Native Americans.

I think the idea that "we can't let the other side win" is behind the the vast majority of supporters. That and the lack of empathy mentioned before. As used to losing as Washington fans have been under Snyder's ownership you'd think they'd be used to it by now.
 
#240
Marial said:
Could have fulled me when I lived in St Paul, MN in the nineties.
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My impression from visiting Minnesota is that the interest and activity involved with the ancestral past is primarily to draw in tourists and create employment. But it does serve to inform some of those folks about their ancestral past. We have same thing here in many areas, with many ethnic and nationalistic festivals,etc.. I know I'm almost 3/4 German, next biggest piece Italian - I don't culturally affiliate with either of them, I'm an American.

As others have noted changing the name would end the expensive controversy AND give the team a fresh start in many ways. I think it's a hurtful name but for some of that ethnic group I think it has acquired a bit of a street cult/kvlt value amongst their own people. But one of your own group referring to you by a generally derogatory term is not the same as a previously or currently oppressive group using it for fun and entertainment.
 

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