Waste of time things your band should avoid

[NoiseNinja]

While I do agree to a certain extend with most points on your list, the C point, (c) Multi-band (>3) gig lineups., seems totally out of place.

So, I am sorry boys, but according to someone on Talk Bass we should totally say no to that spot on that big popular Festival, it's nothing but drunk people anyway, and although that will expose our music to thousands of new potential fans that is just a no go!

Also there happens to be an audience for music played on Sundays and Mondays.

 

[BazzTard]

for originals bands, it's actually more beneficial to share gigs with other bands, to increase the crowd size, and to make an event out of it.

yeah band comps are 'usually' predetermined to be won by the promotor's band

 

[bassbully]

Waste? Band Manager...do it yourselves.

 

[40Hz]

To avoid? ANYTHING that takes away from:

• honing one's craft as a musician
  
• polishing one's act as a performer
  
• finding paid work as a business
  
• communicating with one's fanbase

Many years ago I was given an article that said there were three essential things a band had to do to even have a chance at success. I'll try to paraphrase it as best as I can remember it. Because the advice it gave was pure gold.

The first was make good music - which basically meant: play in tune and on time.

The second was make good money. Because operating as a band generates expenses. And more marriages break up over money problems than anything else. So make sure you get paid. Commit to thinking and acting like the professionals you are from day one. Only amateurs dislike talking about money. And if you think "it's all just too beautiful to be talking about money" forget gigging out and go play for free in a park somewhere. But before you do, remember: one of the main reasons the Grateful Dead lasted as long as they did was because they always (at the very least) broke even.

The third thing is the hardest. Stay together for at least three years. That's how long it takes you to get noticed and be given "the permission of the marketplace." Fly-by-nights and "hobby weekend warrior bands" are a dime a dozen. In the music biz (and it is a business - have no doubt in your mind about that) what's important is staying power. Most bands have a few songs in them. Far fewer have a bona fide disk worth of material that's actually worth listening to. But what your potential fans are looking for is a band they can go on a journey with. A single or an EP - or even a singleton CD - isn't gonna take them there. You need to establish what we used to call "street cred." Because what your fans will want (demand actually once you get some) is that you to put in the time to make it worth their time to: get to know you, come see you play, buy your music and swag, and spread the word about you.

Achieving that almost always takes at least three years. Even with the advances in technology that gave rise to things like YouTube and social media sites like Facebook and Twitter. Today you can get the word out much faster than you used to be able to. But it's gotten harder to make it stick in people’s minds because they're deluged with so many things now competing for even a second of their attention.

It still takes about three years. Believe it.

I forgot who said it (or how it went exactly) but the gist was: Music is one of the few occupations where you get to work your butt off for something like ten or fifteen years in order to become an "overnight success."

Or like bluesman Tinsley Ellis so aptly described his own career: "It's been a long hard climb to the middle."

Repeat after me: It takes three years.

Three.

 

[BAG]

This guy comes from my neck of the woods - Down Under.

In Melbourne, Sunday and Monday nights are usually pretty dead. There is maybe one venue in Melbourne that is known for a decent Sunday night, but even then it's covers.

Original music is Thurs, Fri and Saturday here.

Off Topic:
Melbourne has a pretty rockin music scene with a great mix of original, covers and jazz gigs every night of the week. Probably best in scene in Australia. If you can't find something to see you ain't looking.

Biggest issue is that the pubs here let anyone who can put a 3 band lineup together to have a gig, as there are a lot of bands in this city there is A LOT of average bands. The good bands though are really good!!

The venue I manage is in a small ski town and Monday nights in winter are our biggest night. We have a resident soloist and he loves the gig and never asks for more money each year as he knows he's on a good thing getting a regular Monday night gig with a good crowd. In saying that I've upped his money each year as he has grown the crowd and he is very appreciative of it. There can be some good gigs on Sundays and Mondays but you've got to be lucky to get them as most decent professional musicians will snap them up quickly.

I also agree with stonedboy about the Melbourne scene. I'm actually on the lookout for a decent job down there in order to give my kids more opportunities with their music. We've got a great lifestyle here so it'll have to be a good position but if something came up we'd move.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Once did a multi-band competition. The prize was getting the "house band " spot. We won and had a steady gig for a year, or until our guitar player ran off with another band (that fired him 3 months later). We weren't captive, If we wanted to gig other venues, we had to give notice so he could book a replacement.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

ANYTHING that takes away from:

• honing one's craft as a musician
  
• polishing one's act as a performer
  
• finding paid work as a business
  
• communicating with one's fanbase

Many years ago I was given an article that said there were three essential things a band had to do to even have a chance at success. I'll try to paraphrase it as best as I can remember it. Because the advice it gave was pure gold.

The first was make good music - which basically meant: play in tune and on time.

The second was make good money. Because operating as a band generates expenses. And more marriages break up over money problems than anything else. So make sure you get paid. Commit to thinking and acting like the professionals you are from day one. Only amateurs dislike talking about money. And if you think "it's all just too beautiful to be talking about money" forget gigging out and go play for free in a park somewhere. But before you do, remember: one of the main reasons the Grateful Dead lasted as long as they did was because they always (at the very least) broke even.

The third thing is the hardest. Stay together for at least three years. That's how long it takes you to get noticed and be given "the permission of the marketplace." Fly-by-nights and "hobby weekend warrior bands" are a dime a dozen. In the music biz (and it is a business - have no doubt in your mind about that) what's important is staying power. Most bands have a few songs in them. Far fewer have a bona fide disk worth of material that's actually worth listening to. But what your potential fans are looking for is a band they can go on a journey with. A single or an EP - or even a singleton CD - isn't gonna take them there. You need to establish what we used to call "street cred." Because what your fans will want (demand actually once you get some) is that you to put in the time to make it worth their time to: get to know you, come see you play, buy your music and swag, and spread the word about you.

Achieving that almost always takes at least three years. Even with the advances in technology that gave rise to things like YouTube and social media sites like Facebook and Twitter. Today you can get the word out much faster than you used to be able to. But it's gotten harder to make it stick in people’s minds because they're deluged with so many things now competing for even a second of their attention.

It still takes about three years. Believe it.

I forgot who said it (or how it went exactly) but the gist was: Music is one of the few occupations where you get to work your butt off for something like ten or fifteen years in order to become an "overnight success."

Or like bluesman Tinsley Ellis so aptly described his own career: "It's been a long hard climb to the middle."

Repeat after me: It takes three years.

Three.

Excellent post, but it should actually take about three years, IMHO.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Rehearsing when all band members don't know their parts.

 

[40Hz]

Excellent post, but it should actually take about three years, IMHO.

Did you mean shouldn't?

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Did you mean shouldn't?

oh, no. You are dead on. It was a failed attempt at humor. Interestingly, the 3 years of boot camp can be said for any startup business. Oops! did I say "business in" the presence of musicians.
Please don't ban me.

 

[40Hz]

oh, no. You are dead on. It was a failed attempt at humor. Interestingly, the 3 years of boot camp can be said for any startup business. Oops! did I say "business in" the presence of musicians.
Please don't ban me.

Sorry. I'm slow today. And a little shell shocked and typed out thanks to that Squier discusson over in the Basses section. Think I wrote half a book by now for that one. Sheesh! What was I thinking?

re: biz owner

Got a business (it's actually a very small corporation if you can believe it) of my own. So it won't be me pointing any fingers at you, that's for sure.

 

[Korladis]

While I do agree to a certain extend with most points on your list, the C point, (c) Multi-band (>3) gig lineups., seems totally out of place.

So, I am sorry boys, but according to someone on Talk Bass we should totally say no to that spot on that big popular Festival, it's nothing but drunk people anyway, and although that will expose our music to thousands of new potential fans that is just a no go!

Also there happens to be an audience for music played on Sundays and Mondays.

Seriously don't get the multi-band lineup thing. That's pretty much all I ever see or play. I don't think I've ever been to a concert where there was only one band.

To avoid? ANYTHING that takes away from:

• honing one's craft as a musician
  
• polishing one's act as a performer
  
• finding paid work as a business
  
• communicating with one's fanbase

Many years ago I was given an article that said there were three essential things a band had to do to even have a chance at success. I'll try to paraphrase it as best as I can remember it. Because the advice it gave was pure gold.

The first was make good music - which basically meant: play in tune and on time.

The second was make good money. Because operating as a band generates expenses. And more marriages break up over money problems than anything else. So make sure you get paid. Commit to thinking and acting like the professionals you are from day one. Only amateurs dislike talking about money. And if you think "it's all just too beautiful to be talking about money" forget gigging out and go play for free in a park somewhere. But before you do, remember: one of the main reasons the Grateful Dead lasted as long as they did was because they always (at the very least) broke even.

The third thing is the hardest. Stay together for at least three years. That's how long it takes you to get noticed and be given "the permission of the marketplace." Fly-by-nights and "hobby weekend warrior bands" are a dime a dozen. In the music biz (and it is a business - have no doubt in your mind about that) what's important is staying power. Most bands have a few songs in them. Far fewer have a bona fide disk worth of material that's actually worth listening to. But what your potential fans are looking for is a band they can go on a journey with. A single or an EP - or even a singleton CD - isn't gonna take them there. You need to establish what we used to call "street cred." Because what your fans will want (demand actually once you get some) is that you to put in the time to make it worth their time to: get to know you, come see you play, buy your music and swag, and spread the word about you.

Achieving that almost always takes at least three years. Even with the advances in technology that gave rise to things like YouTube and social media sites like Facebook and Twitter. Today you can get the word out much faster than you used to be able to. But it's gotten harder to make it stick in people’s minds because they're deluged with so many things now competing for even a second of their attention.

It still takes about three years. Believe it.

I forgot who said it (or how it went exactly) but the gist was: Music is one of the few occupations where you get to work your butt off for something like ten or fifteen years in order to become an "overnight success."

Or like bluesman Tinsley Ellis so aptly described his own career: "It's been a long hard climb to the middle."

Repeat after me: It takes three years.

Three.

My main band is doom metal, so, there isn't much money in it, obviously.

Still, this definitely does apply. My band has been together for about three years. The first year of that was songwriting, so hardly counts (because I think to a large extent, it's three years of gigging that matters). We just did a little tour of the Pacific Northwest, and we're just starting to see a little bit of recognition as we head into the process of finishing up the writing and doing the recording for the second album. We had to play plenty nearly empty nights at Eli's in Oakland first, though.

While obviously we're not in it for the money, we do still try to avoid doing imprudent things as far as spending goes. On our tour, we crashed on friends' floors instead of paying for hotels/motels, for instance.

The band SubRosa, if you pay attention to metal news sites, seemed to explode practically overnight in the last year or two. But they've been a band since 2005, busting their asses in the underground and only now enjoying wider success after their... third or fourth album, as I recall.

There's a lot of other ******** that goes along with being a musician that you have to get good at to have any success, too, from networking to being able to load in and out efficiently, and get your stuff on and off stage in a hurry. As weird as it sounds, being slow at striking the stage (if you're not the closing band), is highly detrimental, because if you take too long, people get annoyed at you.

 

[40Hz]

As weird as it sounds, being slow at striking the stage (if you're not the closing band), is highly detrimental, because if you take too long, people get annoyed at you.

Wow! You and me both. Don't even get me started on that one.

I also cannot stand any time a band takes too much time getting on the stage - or is slow to start the music once they do. It's almost as bad as "dead air" between the songs in a set AFAIC.

So I guess another one is: avoid wasting the band's time when you're onstage. If you're not mostly playing, you're wasting time.

My old hard rock band always made it a point to get out on stage quickly, all tuned up and ready to roll, exactly when we were supposed to start.

We usually did three 50-minute sets when we were performing back then. Most of our songs were 4 (or less) minutes long by design. So we had a lot of material to deliver to fill those time slots. For us, that meant a minimum of 45 songs divided into three sets of 15 each. It was more than we needed. Especially if a number was really going over big with the crowd, in which case we'd run it a little longer than usual. But it's better to run long and need to chop a number short or drop one completely than it is to finish everything you've got ten minutes before the set is over.

Some bands try to cover up for that with a lot of talking and joking between numbers. But audiences can usually spot a band that's trying to stall for time from a mile away. So it's not a wise thing to depend on doing stand-up in order to fill out your set. All a lot of band dialog and stage-to-audience chatter accomplishes is to send a signal to the hecklers and loudmouth drunks that it's "audience participation hour." Which usually opens the door for trouble or fights to start happening...

That's one good way to get the club or venue management really pissed off at you and never ask you back.

With all that in mind, we made it a point to dispense with the usual chit-chat and banter when we first came on. Instead, we immediately hit them right between the eyes with one of our strongest songs, and then quickly followed up (without pausing) to do our second number before they even knew what hit them. After that we introduced ourselves quickly and did the obligatory "Thanks for coming out tonite! How is everybody doing? Are you ready to rock?" We then quickly launched into our third and fourth number.

By this time we had delivered four songs with virtually no interruption for a solid 12 or so minutes.

After we did that, the crowd was now ours and ready for a little talk or banter. But we never did much talking, or for long. We always kept it to less than 20 seconds max at a pop before we started playing again. The club management absolutely loved it. And our audiences did too. Truth is, we felt obligated to live up to what we said our band was about. Our tag line was "High-Energy ROCK!" - and we aimed to deliver.

Our goal was to get them totally into it - then up and dancing - as quickly as possible. Not always an easy task because we were about 90% original material, so for the first year or so, at least half the crowd had never heard any of our stuff before. People aren't usually comfortable dancing to songs they don't already know. But that challenge gradually faded away once we built up a crowd that by then knew most of our music.

We also did our best to wear them out completely and make them sit back down again towards the end of the second to the last song in our last set.

Our very last song was a romantic slow rocker we wrote to provide them with some decompression time before they hit the streets. "Thanks for having us here tonite folks. You were great! We really had a great time - and hope you did too. We'll be playing at XXXX on XXXX next week. Hope to see you there. So thanks again, be safe getting home, and good-night!" One more quick chorus, and it was a wrap.

Mission accomplished!

 

[Korladis]

Wow! You and me both. Don't even get me started on that one.

I also cannot stand any time a band that takes too much time getting on the stage - or is slow to start the music once they do. It's almost as bad as "dead air" between the songs in a set AFAIC.

So I guess another one is: avoid wasting the band's time when you're onstage. If you're not mostly playing, you're wasting time.

My old hard rock band always made it a point to get out on stage quickly, all tuned up and ready to roll, exactly when we were supposed to start.

We usually did three 50-minute sets when we were performing back then. Most of our songs were 4 (or less) minutes long by design. So we had a lot of material to deliver to fill those time slots. For us, that meant a minimum of 45 songs divided into three sets of 15 each. It was more than we needed. Especially if a number was really going over big with the crowd, in which case we'd run it a little longer than usual. But it's better to run long and need to chop a number short or drop one completely than it is to finish everything you've got ten minutes before the set is over.

Some bands try to cover up for that with a lot of talking and joking between numbers. But audiences can usually spot a band that's trying to stall for time from a mile away. So it's not a wise thing to depend on doing stand-up in order to fill out your set. All a lot of band dialog and stage-to-audience chatter accomplishes is to send a signal to the hecklers and loudmouth drunks that it's "audience participation hour." Which usually opens the door for trouble or fights to start happening...

That's one good way to get the club or venue management really pissed off at you and never ask you back.

With all that in mind, we made it a point to dispense with the usual chit-chat and banter when we first came on. Instead, we immediately hit them right between the eyes with one of our strongest songs, and then quickly followed up (without pausing) to do our second number before they even knew what hit them. After that we introduced ourselves quickly and did the obligatory "Thanks for coming out tonite! How is everybody doing? Are you ready to rock?" We then quickly launched into our third and fourth number.

By this time we had delivered four songs with virtually no interruption for a solid 12 or so minutes.

After we did that, the crowd was now ours and ready for a little talk or banter. But we never did much talking, or for long. We always kept it to less than 20 seconds max at a pop before we started playing again. The club management absolutely loved it. And our audiences did too. Truth is, we felt obligated to live up to what we said our band was about. Our tag line was "High-Energy ROCK!" - and we aimed to deliver.

Our goal was to get them totally into it - then up and dancing - as quickly as possible. Not always an easy task because we were about 90% original material, so for the first year or so, at least half the crowd had never heard any of our stuff before. People aren't usually comfortable dancing to songs they don't already know. But that challenge gradually faded away once we built up a crowd that by then knew most of our music.

We also did our best to wear them out completely and make them sit back down again towards the end of the second to the last song in our last set.

Our very last song was a romantic slow rocker we wrote to provide them with some decompression time before they hit the streets. "Thanks for having us here tonite folks. You were great! We really had a great time - and hope you did too. We'll be playing at XXXX on XXXX next week. Hope to see you there. So thanks again, be safe getting home, and good-night!" One more quick chorus, and it was a wrap.

Mission accomplished!

We're not really that kind of band, but yeah, we've gotten pretty good at getting set up relatively quickly. Especially now that the guitarists have pedal boards instead of just loose pedals (a change that was made in advance of the tour).

Our scene doesn't have multiple set type things. So setup and tear down are important, as there is another band that has to go on after us most of the time.

For the first year or so of gigging, we just played the first album in its entirety, which was okay, because it was just one 40 minute song. No stage banter at all. At the very end, after our last note, our vocalist would state our band name, thank the audience and the other bands and the venue, and announce that we had merch for sale in the back, and that was it as far as talking. Now we have three ten minute songs that we do as our set, so there is some space between, that we're trying to shorten. We'll have whatever time we need to tune filled with noise, eventually, most likely.

We've gotten pretty good at packing up, too. It's always good to figure out where everything goes in the vehicle that you're using to transport the equipment before the gig, so that you don't waste time at it packing and repacking. This is especially important for bands in my band's genre, where there tends to be a lot of amplification.

 

[40Hz]

We're not really that kind of band, but yeah, we've gotten pretty good at getting set up relatively quickly. Especially now that the guitarists have pedal boards instead of just loose pedals (a change that was made in advance of the tour).

Our scene doesn't have multiple set type things. So setup and tear down are important, as there is another band that has to go on after us most of the time.

For the first year or so of gigging, we just played the first album in its entirety, which was okay, because it was just one 40 minute song. No stage banter at all. At the very end, after our last note, our vocalist would state our band name, thank the audience and the other bands and the venue, and announce that we had merch for sale in the back, and that was it as far as talking. Now we have three ten minute songs that we do as our set, so there is some space between, that we're trying to shorten. We'll have whatever time we need to tune filled with noise, eventually, most likely.

We've gotten pretty good at packing up, too. It's always good to figure out where everything goes in the vehicle that you're using to transport the equipment before the gig, so that you don't waste time at it packing and repacking. This is especially important for bands in my band's genre, where there tends to be a lot of amplification.

Sounds to me like you have your hearts and heads in the right place.

I wish your group all the success in the world.

 

[Faraday]

Wow! You and me both. Don't even get me started on that one.

Some bands try to cover up for that with a lot of talking and joking between numbers. But audiences can usually spot a band that's trying to stall for time from a mile away. So it's not a wise thing to depend on doing stand-up in order to fill out your set. All a lot of band dialog and stage-to-audience chatter accomplishes is to send a signal to the hecklers and loudmouth drunks that it's "audience participation hour." Which usually opens the door for trouble or fights to start happening...

That's one good way to get the club or venue management really pissed off at you and never ask you back.

With all that in mind, we made it a point to dispense with the usual chit-chat and banter when we first came on. Instead, we immediately hit them right between the eyes with one of our strongest songs, and then quickly followed up (without pausing) to do our second number before they even knew what hit them. After that we introduced ourselves quickly and did the obligatory "Thanks for coming out tonite! How is everybody doing? Are you ready to rock?" We then quickly launched into our third and fourth number.

By this time we had delivered four songs with virtually no interruption for a solid 12 or so minutes.

After we did that, the crowd was now ours and ready for a little talk or banter. But we never did much talking, or for long. We always kept it to less than 20 seconds max at a pop before we started playing again. The club management absolutely loved it. And our audiences did too. Truth is, we felt obligated to live up to what we said our band was about. Our tag line was "High-Energy ROCK!" - and we aimed to deliver.

Our goal was to get them totally into it - then up and dancing - as quickly as possible. Not always an easy task because we were about 90% original material, so for the first year or so, at least half the crowd had never heard any of our stuff before. People aren't usually comfortable dancing to songs they don't already know. But that challenge gradually faded away once we built up a crowd that by then knew most of our music.

I think this is good advice. When I see a band come on stage, tune, diddle around, talk to each other, I cringe. Haven't they gigged? They kill any sense of presence. They deflate any excitement or energy.

Later, excessive talking between numbers kills the momentum. It's an invitation for dancers to leave the floor. Unless you're a band with whom the audience already has a strong relationship, they aren't interested in your chit-chat, at least not until you've shown that you can entertain them with your music, not your banter. If they were looking for comedy, they would be at a comedy club. If they wanted stories, they would be in the community room of the library listening to someone in a granny dress who looks like your aunt.

And guess what. Most of us aren't as funny as we think we are. I'm not. When you find yourself laughing at your banter and you are the only one (other than your drummer), it's a clue.

Get a big start. Keep the momentum going. Then give an occasional break, not with lots of talk, but with a slower number. Then "bang." Back at them.

If you play in a folk group, YMMV.

 

[Skarekrough]

Rehearsing when all band members don't know their parts.

I work with a bandleader whose eyes light up whenever it's apparent that someone hasn't done their homework and won't cop to it.

He just proceeds with the usual rehearsal process but manages to pivot things onto the person who doesn't know the material and makes it apparent where they are with things.

The thing about it is that he does it in the most good-natured way and manages to turn it into something relatively fun and amusing but not wholly at the expense of the person who isn't prepared. It's a lesson, but not an embarrassing one or one to make someone feel bad. And there have been times that it actually turned into a good bonding moment for us all when we got a chuckle out of it.

 

[Baird6869]

Never play for a percentage of the bar. Unless you are a forensic accountant, thou shall get boned by the owner every time.

Pay me an agreed upon fee or I dont do the gig.