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WBO 2022: Löwenbäss

#561
Reedt2000 said:
I've wet sanded wenge with thinned wipe-on poly and gotten the pores filled (center stripe)... it just took forever :smug:

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Yeah, it looked like I would've gotten there eventually. But I know me and I'm really impatient with finish work. I can guarantee that I'll destroy it if it's not damn near idiot proof with quick turnaround times. I picked up the aqua coat and I'm headed downstairs to throw a few coats on something.
The really messed up part of all this is that I'm blowing all this money and effort and I can totally see just doing satin poly on the whole bass and letting the pores show, after all. That's usually my system.
Have to wait and see how good the Wenge looks with the pores filled, 3 coats of satin poly and a few coats of paste wax.
 
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#563
Well, I did about 5-6 layers of aqua coat on the wenge, 3 coats on the mahogany and none on the maple. 2 coats of poly and one coat of wax.
I didn't wait long enough between any steps or coats and did a crap job level sanding between coats. So, I'm pretty sure this system will work out well if I take my time and do it right. I just rushed through this tonight to get a feel for how this will go.
It looks like the wenge should either not be filled at all, or be completely filled and level. I think it looks like crap somewhere in the middle.
The piece that had a coat of poly first, didn't fill any faster. But it did seem to look a little brighter and clearer. That could be for any reason though, so I'm not sure if I will lay down poly first before filling. The only reason I might, is to seal the wood and not create as much wood dust when sanding the filler.
Definitely like the satin and I can add wax to taste if I want more shine.
One thing I wonder about, if I decide to not fill the pores, will I have to forget about wax because it will clog the pores and look like crap? I don't want to spend 8 hrs with the Magoo goggles and a needle, cleaning wax out of wenge pores.
 

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#565
RichterScale said:
Well, I did about 5-6 layers of aqua coat on the wenge, 3 coats on the mahogany and none on the maple. 2 coats of poly and one coat of wax.
I didn't wait long enough between any steps or coats and did a crap job level sanding between coats. So, I'm pretty sure this system will work out well if I take my time and do it right. I just rushed through this tonight to get a feel for how this will go.
It looks like the wenge should either not be filled at all, or be completely filled and level. I think it looks like crap somewhere in the middle.
The piece that had a coat of poly first, didn't fill any faster. But it did seem to look a little brighter and clearer. That could be for any reason though, so I'm not sure if I will lay down poly first before filling. The only reason I might, is to seal the wood and not create as much wood dust when sanding the filler.
Definitely like the satin and I can add wax to taste if I want more shine.
One thing I wonder about, if I decide to not fill the pores, will I have to forget about wax because it will clog the pores and look like crap? I don't want to spend 8 hrs with the Magoo goggles and a needle, cleaning wax out of wenge pores.
Click to expand...
I had a bass with wenge FB and it had huge, open pores. Keep going with the slurry/epoxy and keep sanding if you want it all smooth, id say.

Cool thread! Keep on going and good luck :)
 
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#569
RichterScale said:
Yeah, it looked like I would've gotten there eventually. But I know me and I'm really impatient with finish work. I can guarantee that I'll destroy it if it's not damn near idiot proof with quick turnaround times.
Click to expand...
Seconded. It's of cardinal importance to take one's own personality into consideration when choosing procedures.
 
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#570
RichterScale said:
Well, I did about 5-6 layers of aqua coat on the wenge, 3 coats on the mahogany and none on the maple. 2 coats of poly and one coat of wax.
I didn't wait long enough between any steps or coats and did a crap job level sanding between coats. So, I'm pretty sure this system will work out well if I take my time and do it right. I just rushed through this tonight to get a feel for how this will go.
It looks like the wenge should either not be filled at all, or be completely filled and level. I think it looks like crap somewhere in the middle.
The piece that had a coat of poly first, didn't fill any faster. But it did seem to look a little brighter and clearer. That could be for any reason though, so I'm not sure if I will lay down poly first before filling. The only reason I might, is to seal the wood and not create as much wood dust when sanding the filler.
Definitely like the satin and I can add wax to taste if I want more shine.
One thing I wonder about, if I decide to not fill the pores, will I have to forget about wax because it will clog the pores and look like crap? I don't want to spend 8 hrs with the Magoo goggles and a needle, cleaning wax out of wenge pores.
Click to expand...
I've filled wenge with epoxy. Takes multiple fill coats but in the end will result a smooth surface. Zap z-poxy epoxy is fast drying and easy to sand filler.
 
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#572
Beej said:
Someone on here years ago did a shiny finish on wenge with some pores showing, and then buffed it. And buffed compound into the unfilled pores. IIRC it was removed by a dental pick over some hours? I just tried searching for it using search terms that I'm sure some admin will review one day with bemusement, but no dice.
Click to expand...
This is exactly why I'm considering filling and leveling. I think wenge looks fine, even good, with a satin finish and the grain not filled. But I'm concerned with cleaning and polishing down the road.
Another thing I'm still pondering is the FB. That will be a long piece of wenge just about the whole length of the bass.
Do I also fill the pores in that? Will I have to be concerned about grime collection down the road, even if I seal it? Will it look wrong to have the body and neck filled and level and then have the FB open pore?
And then there are a dozen questions that go with each of those questions.
I'll keep plugging away at testing different finishes and methods of application. The way this bass is built, once it's done, it's done. It would be too much of a pain to redo anything on it, so I want to overthink it now.
I assumed an epoxy filler would give a similar result to the vinyl ester. Maybe I should get some and try it. I like the WB stuff for ease of use, but if there's an epoxy that sands easily, I wouldn't mind trying it.
 
#573
RichterScale said:
This is exactly why I'm considering filling and leveling. I think wenge looks fine, even good, with a satin finish and the grain not filled. But I'm concerned with cleaning and polishing down the road.
Another thing I'm still pondering is the FB. That will be a long piece of wenge just about the whole length of the bass.
Do I also fill the pores in that? Will I have to be concerned about grime collection down the road, even if I seal it? Will it look wrong to have the body and neck filled and level and then have the FB open pore?
And then there are a dozen questions that go with each of those questions.
I'll keep plugging away at testing different finishes and methods of application. The way this bass is built, once it's done, it's done. It would be too much of a pain to redo anything on it, so I want to overthink it now.
I assumed an epoxy filler would give a similar result to the vinyl ester. Maybe I should get some and try it. I like the WB stuff for ease of use, but if there's an epoxy that sands easily, I wouldn't mind trying it.
Click to expand...
I like a raw (oiled but not filled and finished) wenge fingerboard. If your gonna finish it then seems like CA is one if the most popular ways to go. I've never done it but it's a pour on thick kinda thing I believe so no filling pores beforehand? I'd ask @Rôckhewer or @Jisch

I know I've seen them do it, probably a ton of others too.
 
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#574
I've never done CA on wenge but I have done it many times on other fingerboard woods (maple, ebony, rosewood). The method I've used has been with thin CA, which wouldn't fill big pores well if at all.

If you're going to fill the fingerboard as well, I'd be thinking about epoxy since it has the durability advantage. Z-poxy not only works well but it's available in smaller packages than popular brands like West so if you only need enough for one bass that might be a good way to go.
 
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#575
Let's say I don't fill the pores,
Is VU WB satin poly durable enough for the FB?
As or more durable than SM fretboard oil?
My 2 considerations are a consistent look with the rest of the wenge, but more importantly, the fact that it's the full length of the bass and will be contacted by the right hand a lot.
 
#576
I've done CA on wenge. I have had some CA fretboard coatings that have gone amazingly well and easy and some that have challenged me. I'll have to go find the build thread for this one to know if it was painful, for some reason I think it was one of the hard ones. I am never sure if the difficulty is my technique or some interaction with the wood.

I wear a mask and goggles and have a box fan running to push the fumes away. I read somewhere that if you can smell it, you're in a bad spot. That's probably a bit extreme, but you definitely want good ventilation and the air movement also helps the CA dry quickly.

In any event this wenge board has the grain filled, it's smooth and shiny. I've documented my process somewhere, but I cut the fingers off a latex glove and put it on my index finger to spread thin CA glue, one layer at a time. Most of the time I do 10-12 coatings sanding with 220 and up in between. Do not use accelerator as it causes the CA to wrinkle as it dries. Thin CA glue dries harder than thicker viscosities. You can't drop fill holes without witness lines. Most videos I've seen online show people using a paper towel to spread, I can't get that to work, the CA hardens very quickly, it gets super hot and the paper towel gets hard. I can't figure out how that works.

I'm more than happy to answer any other questions.

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#579
When I use epoxy for grain filling, it's usually System Three General Purpose as I can get it in smaller containers whereas my local suppliers only carry West Systems in 'redo your yacht' quantities. I didn't use it this time because I'm working in an unheated shop so it's too thick to be applied reasonably, but it will fill things right up with one good slather. When I use it on oak or ash, it sometimes takes two applications, but then you have a solid, reliable base to work from that is compatible with most finishes.

I'm going to do my PH fingerboard with the general purpose stuff in my basement so it's more workable. My point is, if you can get some West Systems near you in reasonable quantity, it will eat wenge's problems for breakfast. Wax paper taped down to work surfaces, a supply of little measuring cups and mixing sticks, a plastic spreader, a box of nitrile or latex gloves, and a ready place to hang it to cure, and it's quite manageable thank you very much. :thumbsup:
 
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#580
Seeing that it will have frets, will WB satin poly be durable enough for the FB, whether it's grain filled or not?
I know finishing a maple board is a given. I thought I've heard people say poly is more than good enough for a fretted maple board. Or is that only the oil based?
 
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