Weird one - Forbidden to use in-ear monitors....

[Ant Illington]

I'm on your side. Maybe show this thread to them.

 

[Ewo]

Sacrificing your hearing doesn't sound like _negotiation_ to me! At least, not a wise negotiation move.

If you decide to go with plugs, I'd second @mcnach 's recommendation of the ACS plugs, and add 64 Audio's plugs to your list for consideration. I've used both, so I can offer a comparo. Pricing is about the same. I gig in a loud bar band with slants at the front of the stage, so I put the plugs in at sound check and keep them in until the end of the gig.

The ACS Pro 17s offer flat attenuation. The silicone material is comfortable. These were my first set of custom molded plugs--having used off-the-shelf plugs of various sorts for 40+ years--and I was very pleased with the purchase.

After the better part of a year with the ACS I tried a set of 64 Audio's plugs (not the IEMs, but plugs) and found these mitigated the occlusion effect even better. That was an advantage, since I sing a lot of backup parts. The ACS Pros were pretty good in that regard, but for me the 64 Audio plugs with -15dB inserts are a bit better.

These do seem to roll off the highs some, but I just have to remember to take it easy with the treble EQ on my rig. (Not a problem, in practice, since I get my tone just bright enough for the mix I'm hearing.) The acrylic isn't as comfortable at first, but I got used to it after a couple gigs. The fit is better; sometimes the seal of the ACS would slip, but that never happens with the 64 Audio. They're also easier to remove, as they don't squish when you grab ahold of them.

Hope that might be useful to ya. IMHO, both are good choices.

 

[bryan gibson]

Dumb question, but if the stage volume is really loud already, why are more wedges necessary? Maybe adjust positioning of current stuff a bit, and pop in ear plugs as suggested above. As for the attitudes and egos involved, I ain't touching that topic. Good luck

 

[MultiScaleMale]

This one is easy, tell them that they need to find someone to provide and run PA. Continue to wear IEMs.

 

[micguy]

If I was your sound guy, I'd be reading the riot act to those who don't get on board with in ears - they can either find someone else (and sound like crap with all the stage noise), or...work with me, and do things right.

I'll also echo the comments of those who say your hearing is way more valuable than any band. Unless, of course, you want to quit music (and be deaf) in a couple years.

You're playing with a bunch of unelightened bozos, and you're not like them. You can do better.

 

[blue4]

I'm pretty easy going. But I don't respond well to threats and tend to get hardass whenever somebody tries to pull a power play on me. People that attempt call my bluff end up walking away empty handed. Because I never waste time trying to bluff. My automatic response to any "take it or leave it" offer is to say "Thank you for your time. We're done here. I'm out."

About half the time they'll come back with better manners and a more reasonable negotiation stance. And about three quarters of the time, I tell them I'm no longer interested in dealing or working with them either way.

Like I said…I don't respond well to threats or power moves.

--

You could always tell them you'll stop using your IEM. But you're also no longer interested in managerial responsibilities, running sound - or providing the PA since other people in the band seem to have all the say and aren't even willing to discuss it with you. So effective immediately you're just going to be the bass player. Not subject to discussion.

I'd do the same. No more booking half the gigs, no more PA, no more sound guy.

 

[Dreamsinger]

I use a Rolls PM351 and hardwire my IEM's. Obviously I run my bass through it and if I can get a decent monitor feed from the board that goes in too. I *HATE* wedges. If I were in your shoes I's get a Behringer X18 then tell the band that if they want a wedge they can supply and haul their own powered monitor. Give them a little tutorial on how to set their own mix. If they don't like it, leave.

 

[FenderB]

This is a little risky, as I know there's folks following this forum that knows my situation, but the frustration level has grown to the point that it may not matter...

A few months ago, I was called out of the blue on a Monday morning by one particular band's manager (also the star's father) and told that the band had decided that they didn't want me to use my IEMs any longer. They say I don't play properly with the IEMs in, although I have several multi-track recordings that prove this is hogwash (but reveals other issues elsewhere that shall go un-mentioned, of course). I think it boils down to the fact that when I play bass AND provide the PA, I may not be as attentive when two particular people want monitor changes during the show. It's claimed that I'm cut off from communication with the rest of the band, but with 4 vocal mics and a little drum overheads in my ears, I hear everyone and everything fine. And it turns out that it was only two people with this problem, not the star of this band who wears in-ear monitors themselves, and not the entire band. The situation was put to me as "non-negotiable" and "I have to please the majority and you're the minority". So I came back with "being the guy that books a lot of the gigs, provides a lot of logistics, and provides the PA when necessary, I'm putting YOU guys on probation to see if I can manage without the ears". I refuse to use a wedge, why do we need more little screaming boxes on the floor spewing more volume onto an already loud stage volume?

This has rocked along now for a few months, but as I figured, I'm getting tired of ringing ears and not hearing the bass well unless it's at a hideous stage volume. Not to mention, getting pounded with 2 guitar amps and the aforementioned hideously loud monitors. At 59 years old, I still hear pretty well. I depend strongly on good ears to play music, tune pianos, and occasionally, mix for an event. It's my living.

I really don't see another solution except to exit the band, which will be two bands since the same rhythm section plays with two different artists (one originals, one cover materials). But with 3 other bands, getting other opportunities to play, and involved with the church band (where the use of my IEMs is perfectly fine with everyone of these other groups), it's getting very hard to justify staying in this particular situation. So I have a decision to make and soon.

Just wondering if anyone else has dealt with a similar situation and how you did or didn't handled it. I'm not certain that there is a good way to deal with it. I don't think for a second that I can make the case and these guys will say "oh, now I understand, then fine, feel free to wear your IEMs". I fully realize that IEMs aren't for everyone, it solves certain problems while causing others, but I know how to deal with those problems.

You need to sit "daddy" down, stare him right in the eye, and tell him how it's going to go down, period. If he doesn't like it, get up grab your gear and leave.

 

[bassmonkeee]

So, you provide the PA and set it up? And, the non-negotiable is that you get to bring more monitors now, too? Yeah, I think I'd walk and take my contacts, PA, and gig booking skills with me rather than deal with a Dad "manager" who isn't even the one booking the gigs. What's up with that?

 

[KevInDaBassment]

still, this means they're getting two people's worth of work out of you (sound and bass). unless you're charging them enough for both put together, they need to accommodate you, not the other way around.

This!

I "play dumb" on PA stuff from now on for this very reason. You end up doing two people's work for one person's pay. If I do go over there and adjust mine, I just say "I'm really just good at doing bass EQ"

 

[40Hz]

So, you provide the PA and set it up? And, the non-negotiable is that you get to bring more monitors now, too? Yeah, I think I'd walk and take my contacts, PA, and gig booking skills with me rather than deal with a Dad "manager" who isn't even the one booking the gigs. What's up with that?

So, you provide the PA and set it up? And, the non-negotiable is that you get to bring more monitors now, too? Yeah, I think I'd walk and take my contacts, PA, and gig booking skills with me rather than deal with a Dad "manager" who isn't even the one booking the gigs. What's up with that?

Seriously. The fact the OP has contacts and is able to get bookings is alone enough to make him a major catch for most bands out there. Add in how he can provide a PA and run sound as a sweetener and it looks to me like Daddy's holding all the cards in this poker game.

Time to introduce the band to a freshman course in life called: Reality Check 101. Also known as "the uncomfortable truth."

Or better yet, just say goodbye and let them work it out all by themselves.

 

[JohnMCA72]

... I would demand more money or something to make it worth dealing with their stupidity.

Defintely charge a "D-bag Tax" on those who would unbalance the cost/benefit equation for you!

 

[lfmn16]

This has rocked along now for a few months, but as I figured, I'm getting tired of ringing ears and not hearing the bass well unless it's at a hideous stage volume. Not to mention, getting pounded with 2 guitar amps and the aforementioned hideously loud monitors. At 59 years old, I still hear pretty well. I depend strongly on good ears to play music, tune pianos, and occasionally, mix for an event. It's my living.

Do they forbid ear plugs? Your hearing is your responsibility, if you ruin it you have no one else to blame.

 

[LowActionHero]

If I hear "we suggest this", I'm listening.

If I hear "you're doing this, or else" I'm gone before they finish talking.

 

[DavC]

simple solution ... learn to say " No " ... the well-being of my hearing is not up for a vote .. !! Period ....
get over it / deal with it ...

if i would get more grief ... i'd be charging Rent for the PA ... and be getting 15% to book the gigs ...

there where never any " stars " in my bands ... if their was , they would provide and pay for everything ,... and i'll still protect my hearing ... ( especially having lost 1 ear back in 74 ... i'm 59 also )

or the less politically correct = ' Bite Me ' .. !

 

[JohnMCA72]

...The situation was put to me as "non-negotiable" ...

That, right there, should be grounds for exit. The only "negotiation" should be over gigs on the books & other obligations.

 

[Gasman]

If you are booking the gigs and handling sound, what exactly is the "manager" doing? Seriously, what is he bringing to the table. Merch? Other contacts? Other musicians?

 

[paulears]

In bands, everyone talks about the one not present when the chat happens. There's one question. Do you want to stay with the band or not?

 

[darwin-bass]

Sounds like they don't care if you are in the band or not. If you quit don't expect them to beg you to stay. They may already be looking for a replacement and may fire you before you quit if they find one.

At least that is how read such a non-negotiable stance. People don't take such positions without having devised a backup plan and having determined that they're OK taking the backup plan if the other party doesn't budge.

 

[Honch]

Find this very awkward, and embarassing. If they can show any proof of this while recording anything you made with IEM, AND without IEM and point out the differences. I sort of get the communication things though. I've been in bands where I've tried to wolf-whistle and only see the drummer turning his head the other way due to IEM and playing to sync midi track, to be vigilant of an upcoming cue, and no, the cue failed like a trainwreck just due to this. It's different when you use earplugs because then ALL sound is dimmed somewhat equally. It's when you're driving a motorcycle and you really have to rely on sight, and eye contact. So, in a way, I understand this, but only if it's a problem. You can't just step into that headphone bubble and thoroughly just enjoy yourself, and showgaze. You have to start looking around and have that wink in the eye while EYEING on fellow band members.