"wenge sounding" us woods?

[FBB Custom]

Okay, some of you know where I fall on this debate, but if one were looking for domestic (north american) woods that "sound similar to wenge", what species would you be looking at?

Warmoth says of wenge: "The tone is balanced with great mid presence and attack. This is a popular wood for boutique bass builders and its tonal reputation is impressive."

Anything come to mind?

 

[treebranch13]

maple is a bit brighter but would work. wenge has a bit more of a growl while maple has more bight.

 

[FBB Custom]

The mids and low-mids are what I have been instructed to emphasize. Please refrain from mid-hump jokes until after the original question runs out of steam.

 

[Jared Lash]

Mike Tobias and Chris Stambaugh have both substituted Hard Ash for Wenge, so that's a thought.

 

[eleonn]

KEn Smith mention on his site that cherry is between maple and mahogany so it could be an option for you. Id look at Invalid Link Removed too and yes I know this is about drums but look at it. I'm sure youll find good info there.

 

[Rodent]

what pickups, pre-amp, neck shaft, and fretboard will you be using?

I would think that you could more than compensate for accentuated mids and low mids by selecting the proper pickups and utilizing an Alder or Korina body

all the best,

R

 

[Eric Perry]

I love Wenge, for it's tonal properties as well as it's aesthetics. It's a shame it's endangered. I won't order or buy anything with Wenge anymore for that reason.


P.S. Sorry I couldn't help with your question, I wanted to share my sadness with it's status though.

 

[FBB Custom]

From Warmoth.com: "...Its [hard ash] density contributes to a bright tone..." If they are to believed this is not what I am after... perhaps I'll try to follow up with Mike or Chris.

If mahogany is warm and maple is bright, what do you get when you "mix" them? I don't know what Ken means in his description of cherry. Anyone?

Rod, the bass will have piezo only. Preamp is tenatively an Audere. Neck shaft and core will be of the wenge substitute. Fingerboard and stringers are likely to be persimmon.

My client is after a sound he attributes to wenge (due to Warwick, I think) but he wants to use FSC or domestic wood (applause). He is taking a "wood first" position on this bass in terms of tone, I believe, and so the focus is on adding what wenge adds to basses. I see a lot of "wood first" types here which is why I started this thread. Bail me out, "wood first" guys!

 

[erikbojerik]

Mike Tobias and Chris Stambaugh have both substituted Hard Ash for Wenge, so that's a thought.

That was my first thought. Northern Ash.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I have attached a list of woods in which you may be interested.

 

[Jonsbasses]

Northern Ash is quite similar, besides having a bit more high ring to it than Wenge. Honestly, no other wood comes close to Wenge that is domestic. Although I have personally never come across Cherry, American Mahogany, or soft Maple.

 

[scottyd]

I'll go out on a limb, Mesquite, its very dense and plenty hard. I plan on building an all domestic (TEXAS WOODS BABY!!) five string bass with a pecan/oak/mesquite neck, cotton wood body and burl oak top. Thats if I ever get the time.....I'll be sure and post some sound clips for the "tone woods the only wood" nay sayers out there...

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I won't comment on the sound but I will suggest by density. A while back I purchased what was called Brown Mesquite and have used it as a fingerboard on 2 instruments. It feels like about the density of wenge, and much cheaper. Looks great but it is lighter in color and certainly much more closed grained. I also feel that it is very similar to Ziricote in density too.
I got it on whim and have been very happy with it, and by the way I'm a huge Wenge fan.
Good luck,
Dirk

 

[erikbojerik]

I've worked with cherry a little (not guitars yet) and it's bonk and workability remind me of mahogany.

It has a similar fundamental, but not quite as much sharpness on the palate....there is a bit of a late bloom with hints of chocolate and berry (and so reminds me of a good wenge that way), but the presence of the overtones is a bit stronger in middle low-mid and lower upper-low regions compared to a fine wenge that has seen its share of good rainy growing seasons.

 

[FBB Custom]

I won't comment on the sound but I will suggest by density. A while back I purchased what was called Brown Mesquite and have used it as a fingerboard on 2 instruments. It feels like about the density of wenge, and much cheaper.
I got it on whim and have been very happy with it, and by the way I'm a huge Wenge fan.

Okay, mesquite is a possibility based on density. It's within 10%, on average, it looks like. I wish it were easier to find around here.

Northern Ash is quite similar, besides having a bit more high ring to it than Wenge. Honestly, no other wood comes close to Wenge that is domestic. Although I have personally never come across Cherry, American Mahogany, or soft Maple.

Okay, so this is the second recommendation for white ash. What about the description of hard ash on Warmoth's site? They call it "bright" which is definitely not what I see in the published descriptions of wenge ("dark", "tubby").

I have attached a list of woods in which you may be interested.

Thanks for the list. I am surprised to find myrtle listed at 53 lbs/ft3 -- are these data your own or collected from somewhere? The myrtle I have used was not as dense as maple.

Keep it coming if you have an opinion folks.

 

[Suburban]

If understand correctly, the use is for the neck core, i.e. not the fingerboard. Then, the thing is to find a wood with similar density-to-stiffness ratio.
From my limited knowledge, wenge has about 18.8, and so has oak, black walnut, cherry, and probably some more (remember, I'm not US domestic myself...).

If I were to build this neck, I'd use oak, because it's rather readily available here, but I would really love to try on some black walnut...
I have this bad feeling in my spine about cherry in the neck, but I have no facts to support that. Perhaps it's just that I like it for body tops...

 

[iamlowsound]

I would suggest black walnut. Cherry is also kinda close.

lowsound

 

[treebranch13]

If you are going with density to stiffness ratio walnut is good, but when i have read descriptions about walnut it does not seem to articulate the midrange like wenge

 

[Skelf]

What you are looking for is something that is brittle has nasty splinters and is a pain to finish due to huge pores. The closest to that that I have used would be Ash but I would think that white Oak would be pretty close as well. Not used it for a bass but helped a friend make some furniture.

 

[Larry Davis]

True hickory is very splintery. Osage Orange is not.

It's not all about weight and density as a comparing issue because any given species can be plus or minus 20% different in physical properties. That means any given two pieces of the same species on a work bench can be 40% apart from "average". An important thing to consider when comparing "what flavor is most like chocolate" is cell structure and lignin, cellulose, hemicellulose contents, pore structure and so forth! Beyond that most folks know what I think of this crap.