Were you dead before you were born (or conceived)?

[IconBasser]

I still like explaining to everyone that when we are conceived we are ALL proto-female, well at least during the first six weeks anyway.

There is no female hormone to trigger a female infant, but after 6 weeks testosterone is released to form a male infant.

That's why men have hairy man nipples.

oh god, I always knew I was a woman!

 

[machine gewehr]

Sure, materially speaking, we existed before "ourselves" as individuals but I think that is exactly what "prior existence" refers to; the existence of our identity as entities in the universe. To simplify, if you were to build a Lego fort, the pieces to build it existed long before the fort itself but that doesn't mean the fort existed. Once built, it becomes it's own body, independent of all other material. We are the Lego fort .

Yup,thats what I was trying to tell and didn't come out right I guess.Hence the comment:

No, the matter from which I am created existed. *I* did not.

A pile of bricks isn't a house.

I know what you mean;still, it makes me feel good *I* was once a star.

Hmm now makes me wonder...Some nights I wake up from a horrid nightmare where I collapse inside myself,turn into a supernova followed by gamma ray bursts and fireworks.Then I wake up screaming...

 

[Relic]

Hmm now makes me wonder...Some nights I wake up from a horrid nightmare where I collapse inside myself,turn into a supernova followed by gamma ray bursts and fireworks.Then I wake up screaming...

nah that's just the result of cheap beer. Try something better and you'll be dreaming about sexy naked Asian chicks serving you sandwiches.

 

[flypejose]

Life is unfathomable!

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Death is the termination of the biological functions that sustain a living organism. I accept that definition so it means that death implies that you've been alive before so no you were not "dead" before you were alive, from that point of view.

Others might say that dead is simply "not alive", so form that point of view you were dead before. W.e. floats your boat, I don't mind much, kind of a futile argument.

It is simply an argument of semantics.

Oxford Dictionary Definitions (well, relevant ones):

Death:

"the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism"

"the permanent ending of vital processes in a cell or tissue"

"the destruction or permanent end of something"


I agree with the dictionary definitions and Ziltoid, in the biological sense, you need to have been alive to die. Death follows life, it isn't a precursor.

IMO etc etc

 

[machine gewehr]

nah that's just the result of cheap beer. Try something better and you'll be dreaming about sexy naked Asian chicks serving you sandwiches.

With the cheap vodka I'm having tonight,I guess I'll wake up screaming after turning into a black hole in my dream...

 

[MatticusMania]

I agree with the dictionary definitions and Ziltoid, in the biological sense, you need to have been alive to die. Death follows life, it isn't a precursor.

IMO etc etc

That of course goes along with the assumption that our current life is the only one a person has ever had. I can't confirm nor deny that possibility.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

That of course goes along with the assumption that our current life is the only one a person has ever had. I can't confirm nor deny that possibility.

Which is why I said in a Biological sense.

You'll come from your parents (instant rimshot anyone?), in the form of living cells, who came from their parents in the form of living cells. At no point was the source, biologically dead.

Spiritually, that's an entirely different thing. Not for me (simple numbers, there are more people now than there have been in the past, where would the new spirits come from? If we're talking of reincarnation).

It really is one of these topics than can quickly become cyclic and stonertastic

 

[MatticusMania]

"where would the new spirits come from? If we're talking of reincarnation)."

Venus!

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

touche good sir

 

[UncleFluffy]

In "Being and Nothingness", Satre with a nod to Heidegger, might explain this is as you were 'null' in existence before you were born in a being-in-itself sort of way...of course, in the being-for-itself, you may have existed somewhere else but not where your parents, doctors, nurses, etc. expected to find you.

I think i got it right? Its been 30+ years.....

I think you can unroll this all the way back to Kant and "Existence is not a predicate"

 

[daystcity]

I'm with Epicurus in that if you're dead, you aren't, and if you are you aren't dead. So, no.

 

[fdeck]

Which is why I said in a Biological sense.

You'll come from your parents (instant rimshot anyone?), in the form of living cells, who came from their parents in the form of living cells. At no point was the source, biologically dead.

True, but of your zillions of cells, only two came from your parents, and those ones are long gone. For all practical purposes, the entire bulk of your body is built up from food and air that were rendered into non living form before entering your bloodstream.

Spiritually, that's an entirely different thing. Not for me (simple numbers, there are more people now than there have been in the past, where would the new spirits come from? If we're talking of reincarnation).

It really is one of these topics than can quickly become cyclic and stonertastic

Is each sperm half of a spirit?

 

[Munjibunga]

It is simply an argument of semantics.

Oxford Dictionary Definitions (well, relevant ones):

Death:

"the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism"

"the permanent ending of vital processes in a cell or tissue"

"the destruction or permanent end of something"


I agree with the dictionary definitions and Ziltoid, in the biological sense, you need to have been alive to die. Death follows life, it isn't a precursor.

IMO etc etc

The definition of "death" doesn't apply here. Death is a noun. To die is a verb. I am talking about the adjective "dead." As in "not alive." However, most of the definitions below seem to indicate previous life for anything dead.

1: deprived of life : no longer alive
2a (1) : having the appearance of death : deathly <in a dead faint> (2) : lacking power to move, feel, or respond : numb b : very tired c (1) : incapable of being stirred emotionally or intellectually : unresponsive <dead to pity> (2) : grown cold : extinguished <dead coals>
3a : inanimate, inert <dead matter> b : barren, infertile <dead soil> c : no longer producing or functioning : exhausted <a dead battery>
4a (1) : lacking power or effect <a dead law> (2) : no longer having interest, relevance, or significance <a dead issue> b : no longer in use : obsolete <a dead language> c : no longer active : extinct <a dead volcano> d : lacking in gaiety or animation <a dead party> e (1) : lacking in commercial activity : quiet (2) : commercially idle or unproductive <dead capital> f : lacking elasticity <a dead tennis ball> g : being out of action or out of use <the phone went dead>; specifically : free from any connection to a source of voltage and free from electric charges h (1) : being out of play <a dead ball> (2) : temporarily forbidden to play or to make a certain play in croquet
5a : not running or circulating : stagnant <dead water> b : not turning <the dead center of a lathe> c : not imparting motion or power although otherwise functioning <a dead rear axle> d : lacking warmth, vigor, or taste
6a : absolutely uniform <a dead level> b (1) : unerring (2) : exact <dead center of the target> (3) : certain to be doomed <he's dead if he's late for curfew> (4) : irrevocable <a dead loss> c : abrupt <brought to a dead stop> d (1) : complete, absolute <a dead silence> (2) : all-out <caught it on the dead run>
7: devoid of former occupants <dead villages>
&#8212; dead·ness noun
&#8212; dead in the water
1: incapable of being effective : stalled <peace talks were dead in the water>
2: as good as dead : doomed <most books are dead in the water long before their publication &#8212; Phillip Lopate>
&#8212; dead to rights
: with no chance of escape or excuse : red-handed <had him dead to rights for the robbery>
&#8212; over one's dead body
: only by overcoming one's utter and determined resistance <vows that they'll raise his taxes over his dead body>

 

[ShredderMaximus]

I know what you mean;still, it makes me feel good *I* was once a star.

Hmm now makes me wonder...Some nights I wake up from a horrid nightmare where I collapse inside myself,turn into a supernova followed by gamma ray bursts and fireworks.Then I wake up screaming...

big stretch here, but there is a chance that I may have an atom of what was once alien poop floating around in my body?! niiiiiiiiice

 

[Unrepresented]

The individual is a human concept that while applicable in abstract, isolated theories doesn't actually exist in the reality we live in. There is no birth or death, only perception of it.

 

[machine gewehr]

big stretch here, but there is a chance that I may have an atom of what was once alien poop floating around in my body?! niiiiiiiiice

There's a chance that you may have an atom of a dinosaur's poop,one of your very old ancestors poop etc.With the touch of luck one can be made of "once poop" atoms I guess.

The universe does not waste.

 

[UncleFluffy]

The individual is a human concept that while applicable in abstract, isolated theories doesn't actually exist in the reality we live in. There is no birth or death, only perception of it.

Well, yes, but no concept exists in objective, external reality. The map may not be the territory, but it's kinda useful for having a conversation about it.

 

[clintotron]

No, the matter from which I am created existed. *I* did not.

A pile of bricks isn't a house.

Eeyore's house was a pile of sticks...

 

[Ziltoid]

Eeyore's house was a pile of sticks...

Of all the threads you could of necroed you chose this one?