What’s it take to get good B string performance?

[zortation]

I'll add another vote for pickup type and placement; those are the two biggest factors in how a B will be heard.

 

[jemerpi]

Ibanez makes lots of reliable extended range basses.

DR makes lots of reliable strings for extended range basses.

 

[JimmyM]

Which brand/model are you using?
Since gauge is only one of the ingredients ruling how the string will feel tension-wise, your 120 could very well have more tension than another brand's 130.

Dunlop Super Bright Nickels, which I can assure you don’t have more tension than another brand’s 130.

 

[doran.dragic]

You need to try a few different string models - I haven’t experienced “weird overtones” on any of a half dozen B string types. Weird overtones on a B string are likely strat-itis - A pickup too close to a loose string will do that; a different gauge won’t.

I'm not sure I understood what you said correctly. Also I'm not sure how "weird overtones" are defined but inharmonicity is somewhat known and also researched subject:
On inharmonicity in bass guitar strings with application to tapered and lumped constructions - SN Applied Sciences

 

[TomB]

I would include proper pickup height to avoid magnetic interference under “proper set-up”. …and yes, it’s very important, especially with certain hot pickups.

 

[Doug4321]

I'm not sure I understood what you said correctly. Also I'm not sure how "weird overtones" are defined but inharmonicity is somewhat known and also researched subject:
On inharmonicity in bass guitar strings with application to tapered and lumped constructions - SN Applied Sciences

The most extreme example of weird overtones I had was from Roto Jazz Flats on an EB-0, mostly the E string. Light gauge strings but stiff construction and the short scale made them that much looser and stiffer. Stiff strings especially loose ones equals sharp overtones. The overtones were quite sharp so you couldn’t tune it electronically. Best to shut off all treble and tune it by matching 5th fret to the next open string.

Stiff strings, either due to construction, or just thick, short strings, will have sharper overtones, same basic reason as why you have to move the saddles back more for thicker stiffer strings to intonate.

 

[Wasnex]

I'm not sure I understood what you said correctly. Also I'm not sure how "weird overtones" are defined but inharmonicity is somewhat known and also researched subject:
On inharmonicity in bass guitar strings with application to tapered and lumped constructions - SN Applied Sciences

IMHO, inharmonicity = weird overtones.

 

[bnt]

The fundamental* problem with me is that my mental reference tone for a low B is the piano note. That kind of clarity is what I long to hear in a bass, but I rarely hear anything like that on any bass. Actually getting that would require a much longer and thinner string, and anything less is a compromise. Years ago I basically gave up, strung my only 5-string bass in high C, and got rid of it a few years after that. A 37" B multiscale like the Dingwall or Spector could be an option, I suppose, but I'm getting older and looking at short scales now. I do have my octaver pedal, though!

* sorry

 

[Wasnex]

The fundamental* problem with me is that my mental reference tone for a low B is the piano note.

Probably the closest I have heard is Nolly Getgood on a Dingwall.

 

[bass12]

I'm inclined to say that luck is the biggest determining factor where a good B is concerned. My sample size is relatively small and most of my 5s have been 35" scale. In general the Bs on my basses have been perfectly fine (including on a few 34" basses). The worst Bs I've had have been on 34" basses, including a 2002 Warwick Thumb NT and a Sadowsky NYC jazz. One of the best Bs I've experienced on any bass (34" or 35") is the one on my Sadowsky Modern. I don't think I've ever had an issue with a bad B on a 35" (though maybe I'm forgetting something).

 

[bass12]

You need a decent amount of tension for the string not to be floppy. If you understand the Physics of how string instruments work (I studied precisely this stuff in college), the formula for string gauges with the same tension across the strings falls out of the Physics. Unfortunately, most folks seem to like an arithmetic progression for string diameters - 40,60, 80, 100, 120. That sounds like a nice progression, but it doesn't work in practice. The notes of a musical scale are a geometric progression, where the change between notes is a ratio, an instrument tuned in 4ths also follows this rule - for constant tension, the frequency ratio is 3/4 as you go down, the diameters of the strings should go up by a ratio of 4/3. on the previously cited set, the G and E strings are about the same tension, the A has more tension, and the D has a bunch more tension - we're not starting in a great place, but it gets worse as you add a B string. If you like the tension of your 100 gauge E, the B should have a diameter of 133 (call it 135 as the closest multiple of 5). For a 105 E, you should have a 140 B. Now, take a look at 5 string sets - do they follow this progression? Nope. The B is much thinner - why? Good question. The answer to that aside, It's too skinny. Why is the B string on many 5's floppy? The string is too small. This isn't rocket science (it is Acoustical Physics)

Bass makers (you can ask around) tried to get string makers to make string sets with rational tension, but when that didn't happen, they made the scale longer - they figured that would at least help the worst string. That does help a bit (not enough actually), but it also raises the tension of the other 4 strings. Your D string, which already had too much tension, just became more of a problem. Not much progress has been made.

A longer neck also makes it floppier - if you want a stiff neck, you don't want to make it longer. All you need to so to understand this is walk out on a diving board - the further out you go, the floppier it gets. The bass (as a solid platform for the string to vibrate on) isn't getting better as it gets longer, it's getting worse. A 34 with the right gauge string is actually better than a 35 - that's the Physics of the situation.

So, applying the science to the situation, it's a string problem. The best place to fix a a problem is at the source of the problem - the right strings (that's my Engineer side talking).

Thanks for the detailed post. This would explain why I've experienced what I perceive as particularly tight D strings on a number of basses.

 

[doran.dragic]

IMHO, inharmonicity = weird overtones.

This is how I understand it and this is why I am confused. I've never had a B string that wouldn't have this issue to some degree. But @micguy hasn’t experienced “weird overtones” on any of a half dozen B string types.

 

[badinage]

I must live in a charmed world because I can only remember a handful of times when whatever B string was available was anything other than "just fine". Maybe a few off the wall at a music store that had crap strings all the way across anyway.

 

[Wasnex]

This is how I understand it and this is why I am confused. I've never had a B string that wouldn't have this issue to some degree. But @micguy hasn’t experienced “weird overtones” on any of a half dozen B string types.

Some people like playing higher on the neck and perceive the tone as being warmer, thicker, and having more texture. I tend to like playing closer to the nut where the tone is brighter, more stringy, and pure.

My perception is most basses start to exhibit inharmonicity on the B string by the 4th or 5th fret. On the E string it happens around the 10th fret.

 

[badinage]

Some people like playing higher on the neck and perceive the tone as being warmer, thicker, and having more texture. I tend to like playing closer to the nut where the tone is brighter, more stringy, and pure....

Or both. Big intro near the nut, mellower on high-frets for a noticeable dynamic change the moment the vocal starts, back to the bottom five for punches/transitions/maybe under some of the solos and maybe again for a big back-to-the-head part leading to the outro. So both. When it fits.

 

[micguy]

Thanks for the detailed post. This would explain why I've experienced what I perceive as particularly tight D strings on a number of basses.

I run 40-55-70-95-130 on my basses - the 55 D string is much better matched to a 40 G than a 60 is. If you like a 45 G, you should run a 60 D, not a 65.

 

[motoman]

I rented a ibanez sr 505 the b string was very loose but did sound good. My rogue pro 5 string made in Korea has a much tighter b string and both basses are 34" scale. Go figure

 

[micguy]

This is how I understand it and this is why I am confused. I've never had a B string that wouldn't have this issue to some degree. But @micguy hasn’t experienced “weird overtones” on any of a half dozen B string types.

Inharmonicity on a B string can be due to too thick of a core wire - the reason you have windings on a string is that a solid string becomes dispersive when the restoring force has too much stiffness contributing, rather than pure tension - that stiffness means the string is a dispersive medium - the velocity of wave propagation becomes frequency dependent, which means the overtones are not harmonics of the fundamental. The core wire on a B string doesn't need to be any bigger than that of your G string for strength reasons (in most cases it has less tension, not more), and the smaller it can be made, the more "pure" the string will be in terms of harmonics.

Other instruments where inharmonicity is an issue are all over the place - xylophones and others in that family, bells of all sorts, etc. Drums are another case where the overtones are definitely out of tune, but due to different reasons. An orchestra has lots of places where overtones are inharmonic. A bass guitar is a really minor case of it, unless you've got warbles from pickups being too close or having magnets that are too strong - I have definitely run across that with certain pickups, which I don't use for that reason. If you're hearing things being way out of tune, that could be your issue.

A tapered string does, in theory, change the harmonics a bit - in college (I studied Acoustical Physics, and the prof was an expert in the acoustics of musical instruments, so this stuff is in my wheelhouse) we unwound half a string, and that was pretty wild - that string never sounded in tune. Tapered strings on bass guitars are a lot less out of tune. The exposed core ones are more out of tune than the ones where just one layer is left off. In practice, there are a lot of other things that are more important in terms of tuning than the tapered core strings I have tried. The bass I have by my desk at this point, the fundamental, octave, 2nd octave, and 3rd octave up of the open B all read dead on using my tuner. They are SIT's Powerwounds, with a 130 tapered B - just one layer taken off near the bridge. My other favorite strings at this point are Kalium Hybrids - 130 B's tapered. They work fine. So do their Steels. I've had good luck with Mangan nickels and steels, and GHS Boomers - well kinda, I use a GHS Bassics 130 with a set of 40-95 Boomers as the B, as it matches that set better than the Boomer 130. I haven't done an exhaustive study of every string available - I have a bunch that work, I'm good with that. To some extent, I am limited by the fact that I like balanced tension, so I can't buy regular sets - I typically only buy strings where you can make up a set from available gauges. With Boomers, the 4 string set is close enough that I can buy a single for the B and use a 4 string set for the rest.

 

[Wasnex]

Or both. Big intro near the nut, mellower on high-frets for a noticeable dynamic change the moment the vocal starts, back to the bottom five for punches/transitions/maybe under some of the solos and maybe again for a big back-to-the-head part leading to the outro. So both. When it fits.

Yes, I make this sort of choice as well. It's one of the nice things about playing a 6-string.

 

[Geri O]

My perception is most basses start to exhibit inharmonicity on the B string by the 4th or 5th fret. On the E string it happens around the 10th fret.

Indeed, I’ve gotten this perception on every 5-string I’ve owned, which are Fender, then Lulls and Stingrays.

Just no point in playing the B string above the 5th fret.

And to your point about playing in positions closer to the nut, this is my preference as well. To this point, some time back at church, I was the sole bassist in a piece arranged for a string ensemble and vocals. (Played electric, it worked).

There was one tricky passage in the piece (challenging, but enjoyable) and it was easier to play the intervals up the neck, around 7th and 8th frets, but I preferred the tone when I played it in the first 5 frets. I didn’t think either way sounded bad and I was playing my Lull Jazz-style 5. During a break, I called out to the FOH guy, played the passage both ways, and asked which way he preferred.

He and 2 other people readily agreed on the 1st few frets as their favorite tone. Fair enough, that position it is…

And they thanked me for asking! Wow, okay!