What’s it take to get good B string performance?

[David McIntire]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by RE-installing strings and what technique you use to avoid twist?

thank you!

I can. A bit of background is that I started playing low B strings way back. Strings, nor basses, had caught up. My basses had dullish B strings at first. It might sound great open, but fretted notes might be awful. And this is when the myth of 35 scale basses having better B strings began. At that time it was kinda true, tho. I used em awhile. But I'd always wanted a Smith. Got one. It was 34 scale. I used Yamahas, too. 33 an 7/8 scale. Chuck Rainey on a Smith, and Will Lee and John Patitucci on a Yamaha, all had great B strings on record and live, yet mine would not sound the same. I tried every string on the market. With mostly the same results. Disappointing.

One day, when I was removing a set of strings, I noticed the B string untwist itself from the post when I removed it. The coil of the string making nearly a full rotation. I'd been reading Roger Sadowsky's articles on setup in Bass Player, speaking of witness points, too. So, the witness point setting and the twist hit me all at once.

I tried a lot of ways of installation, and setting points. I ended up with this process;

For tuning stability, I wind my strings to the bottom of the posts. That means winding a string 3 to 4 times around the post. That causes the string to twist, as well. So, when installing, I first use the tuner to wind the string up to about a 1/2 step below standard. I gently set witness points at this stage, then, loosen the tuning peg and remove the coil from the peg. I un twist the string and RE install the coil on to the peg, making the coil in line with the peg again. Then I tune to standard, then fully set my witness points. Removing that twist helped immensely. In the past, I'd just installed 4 string sets on my 4 strings, and hadn't thot about a twist, but hadn't really had performance issues. So I was skeptical re installing smaller strings would have the same results. But it did. String balance improved, longevity as well. So, I now install all my sets twice, in the way I described. I finally had B string performance I was happy with. My B string rings clear at every fret position, and I no longer have to avoid frets up the neck when using the B.

Setup, string height over pickups are other very important factors. String height has to be high enuff for the string to vibrate elliptical without altering your plucking action. Or, you can alternate your plucking action. But I didn't wanna re learn how to play. So my setups accommodate my style. That's what important.

If pickups are too close, they can affect a strings vibration as well. Especially fretting beyond the 12th fret. So, I use all these factors when stringing a bass and setting it up. I've had great success with B strings of all scale lengths using this process, and truly believe that I can get a great B on any bass.

 

[FRoss6788]

You need a decent amount of tension for the string not to be floppy. If you understand the Physics of how string instruments work (I studied precisely this stuff in college), the formula for string gauges with the same tension across the strings falls out of the Physics. Unfortunately, most folks seem to like an arithmetic progression for string diameters - 40,60, 80, 100, 120. That sounds like a nice progression, but it doesn't work in practice. The notes of a musical scale are a geometric progression, where the change between notes is a ratio, an instrument tuned in 4ths also follows this rule - for constant tension, the frequency ratio is 3/4 as you go down, the diameters of the strings should go up by a ratio of 4/3. on the previously cited set, the G and E strings are about the same tension, the A has more tension, and the D has a bunch more tension - we're not starting in a great place, but it gets worse as you add a B string. If you like the tension of your 100 gauge E, the B should have a diameter of 133 (call it 135 as the closest multiple of 5). For a 105 E, you should have a 140 B. Now, take a look at 5 string sets - do they follow this progression? Nope. The B is much thinner - why? Good question. The answer to that aside, It's too skinny. Why is the B string on many 5's floppy? The string is too small. This isn't rocket science (it is Acoustical Physics)

Bass makers (you can ask around) tried to get string makers to make string sets with rational tension, but when that didn't happen, they made the scale longer - they figured that would at least help the worst string. That does help a bit (not enough actually), but it also raises the tension of the other 4 strings. Your D string, which already had too much tension, just became more of a problem. Not much progress has been made.

A longer neck also makes it floppier - if you want a stiff neck, you don't want to make it longer. All you need to so to understand this is walk out on a diving board - the further out you go, the floppier it gets. The bass (as a solid platform for the string to vibrate on) isn't getting better as it gets longer, it's getting worse. A 34 with the right gauge string is actually better than a 35 - that's the Physics of the situation.

So, applying the science to the situation, it's a string problem. The best place to fix a a problem is at the source of the problem - the right strings (that's my Engineer side talking).

While I appreciate the math, I can't stand a B string larger than a 125. Don't like the feel or the weird overtones.

So all these builders making 35" and longer scale to accommodate B strings have no idea what they're doing?

 

[micguy]

While I appreciate the math, I can't stand a B string larger than a 125. Don't like the feel or the weird overtones.

So all these builders making 35" and longer scale to accommodate B strings have no idea what they're doing?

You need to try a few different string models - I haven’t experienced “weird overtones” on any of a half dozen B string types. Weird overtones on a B string are likely strat-itis - A pickup too close to a loose string will do that; a different gauge won’t.

35” scale length is a band aid - if you go to the NAMM show and ask around at bass maker’s booths, they would have preferred that string makers made good sets for 5’s. When that didn’t happen, they did what they could. Which isn’t much, unfortunately.

 

[Curtbass]

Ew.... you didn't just "GO THERE" did you?????!!! I've had a love / hate relationship with the "B" for years. Based on my experience (I've owned 6). I've developed these beliefs - none of which have as basis of fact.
- My issue is muddy sounding B - I often can't tell what note I just played
- Compression added from the pedal board can make them tolerable
- Speaking of which - a light touch does help some. Ya can't reach over and thwack it one. It'll sound like ... a "B" string
- A note played on an "E" typically has better sound quality than the same note played on a "B"
- Fender P bass has the worse "B" string ever
- Fender J bass has the 2nd worst "B"
- Its not the neck length - its the type of pups - at least OEM pups
- EBMM special has a great B (at 34") right out of the box (different type of pups)
- G&L L2500 sound good with round wounds - I didn't enjoy the (Ti) flats on it
- String type doesn't matter a whole lot
- An Ibanez EHB1506MS has an excellent "B". It happens to be 35" scale - totally different pups though - half the cost of the others.
- Facts are, if you get a bigger cab and more pedals it'll sound just fine.
- If you're listening thru headphones, it'll never sound great.
- If you're old - you can't hear those frequencies anyways!!!!

Just sayin....

The best b string sound I’ve ever had comes from a four string p bass strung bead. Definitely agree on the light touch being crucial and most everything else in your post.

 

[fauxtoe]

You need to try a few different string models - I haven’t experienced “weird overtones” on any of a half dozen B string types. Weird overtones on a B string are likely strat-itis - A pickup too close to a loose string will do that; a different gauge won’t.

35” scale length is a band aid - if you go to the NAMM show and ask around at bass maker’s booths, they would have preferred that string makers made good sets for 5’s. When that didn’t happen, they did what they could. Which isn’t much, unfortunately.

I absolutely have experienced weird overtones from a B string (and only the B). One of my basses came with a tapered B from the factory, and thinking it might just have been that particular string I installed another set from a different brand that also had a tapered B. Same problem! As soon as I switched over to a non-taper set it was like night and day. Intonation was spot on, weird warble tone went away, and it rang out clear as a bell.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

I prefer a 35” scale, although my Alembic Excel-5 has a 34” scale, and it’s B-string feels and sounds pretty good.

I’ve experimented with different gauge B-strings, and I really don’t notice a huge difference.

I very much prefer higher string tension on the entire set, but that’s more because of my technique. I tend to pluck pretty hard at times. And I’ve never done very well with strings that are tapered over the bridge saddles. I prefer strings that “fight back”.

 

[Doug4321]

Just to respond to some questions a while back:

I don’t have a particular tone in mind when thinking of performance, but that it isn’t clunky, clattering, poor intonation, bad overtones or weak fundamental. Not like an atonal ker-chunk. Those kinds of things.

5ers in stores I’ve tried were Fenders or Ibanez SR at Guitar Center, or those and various others at an independent shop. Generally not high end, and probably not set up the best.

 

[micguy]

I absolutely have experienced weird overtones from a B string (and only the B). One of my basses came with a tapered B from the factory, and thinking it might just have been that particular string I installed another set from a different brand that also had a tapered B. Same problem! As soon as I switched over to a non-taper set it was like night and day. Intonation was spot on, weird warble tone went away, and it rang out clear as a bell.

So, you have found a B string you like!

 

[chris_b]

Apart from all the good stuff mentioned so far, I find that the way I play a bass has an impact on how good, or not, it sounds. . . . on all strings.

 

[beatdatthang]

Using the correct strings is big - shorter scale 5s can sound as good as longer scale 5s by using the correct strings. All 5 string sets aren’t made equal and just because they make a 5 string set of your favorite set of 4 strings, it doesn’t mean it’s a good set of strings for the B string.

A B string of say, .130 will sound different and perform differently on a 34” scale, a 35” scale, and a 36” or more scale. Also (surprise!) even though they make flats in 5 string sets, they typically don’t work very well because you need that lower string to actually have some bite. Flats typically don’t bite.

The other thing I think makes a huge difference is active electronics. I know the passive guys here will poo poo on it, but there’s a reason that a 34” passive Jazz 5 has such poor reviews (probably the most hated B string in the bass world) and a 34” Stingray B string is so highly thought of. The frequency range of that B rely on other frequencies (midrange and treble) to prevent it from just being boomy and sound like mud. Active electronics provide the ability to adjust those frequencies and allow them to have a more focused B. Anyone ever tried a passive, 34” P bass (with only a P pickup)? Unless all you want out of your B is a dull thud, typically a passive P pickup and 34” B don’t play super well together in my experience. Probably why they’re super rare in the bass world.

Of course these are all my opinions but they’re based on 38 years or so of experience playing 5s off and on. I’m not much of a 5 string player anymore but did play them almost exclusively for over a decade. I think active electronics are the most important and finding the right set of strings for your bass is second.

 

[bobdabilder]

I have never had a bad b string on a 35 scale bass. I've had several on a 34 scale bass.

 

[MrLenny1]

All my basses are 34" scale. 2 bolt on's & 2 neck thru's
and the B strings sound good with new Strings & setup.

 

[pb9717]

I gave up on 5 strings a few years ago after 20 years of using them exclusively. My advice...If you don't need it, then don't bother. If its to expand your range, you can tune BEAD. The extra weight, and neck width is just not worth it. Then I got a gig where I had to use a 5 string. I found that if the bass wasn't quality, even with proper stringing techniques and removing string twist, I couldn't shine a turd fiver. I ended up having to go with a higher end unit ( Sadowsky Modern) , and it's fine. But man, I miss using my 4. Only saving grace is the Modern is a killer sounding bass.

 

[bassballs27]

Good setup by a long shot.
If short scales can pull off an amazing B, so should a 34” and up scale bass.

Pickup height is important too.

 

[InhumanResource]

I don’t really need a 5 string but perennially interested….

Most every one I’ve picked up at the store had terrible B string performance. Problems like E strings have except worse. Clunky, clattering, poor intonation, maybe bad overtones or weak fundamental.

I’ve heard various opinions about how to avoid this. Scott Devine speaking with some luthiers on YouTube, they suggested it’s build quality and wood quality and some basses just don’t work well mysteriously. Didn’t think it was just a strings or scale length issue. I’ve heard many contradictory things here. What is it?

Poll for the democratic opinion.

Something else - a good bass! Can’t define it in the terms on the poll.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Something else: dual humbuckers with active eq.

 

[XLunacy]

As the strings we all use are all made of various metals of pretty much the same density, if both strings are round wounds, I would be surprised to see an example where this is actually true. There just isn't enough variation in how round wound strings are made to make that much difference.

Looked around, it is indeed surprising
I am purposefully not taking the different materials and geometries (core size and shape) into account (staying with roundwound though), which was the point of my initial question : the gauges alone do not tell enough to predict the differences in actual tension, and a lighter gauge from manufacturer A can be much tighter than a heavier gauge from manufacturer B.
Hopefully my figures are correct, I've linked the source for each example (gotta love manufacturers that publish this kind of detailed information ).

For a standard 34" B string, here are a few extreme examples of roundwound strings of different gauges with similar tensions (around 31/32 lbs) as documented by the manufacturers:

• Stringjoy's 120 has 31.3 lbs of tension (Stringjoy Guitar String Tension Calculator)
  • For reference, their 130 has 38.6!
• GHS's : SuperSteels 121 has 31.8 lbs, Balanced Nickel 130 has 30.8 lbs (http://www.ghsrep.weebly.com/uploads/2/2/2/5/22258814/2020-ghs-bass-guitar-tension.pdf)
• Elixir's SS 130 has 32 lbs (https://www.elixirstrings.com/support/string-tension-for-tuning-guitar)
• D'Addario's ProSteels 130 has 31.7 lbs (https://www.daddario.com/globalassets/pdfs/accessories/tension_chart_13934.pdf)

On this small sample of manufacturers, we can also see that for a gauge of 130, there can be an increase of up to ~25% between the lowest and highest documented tension (30.8 vs 38.6 lbs).

 

[Les Fret]

My opinion is that there is not much you can do about the B string. It either is there or not. It’s in the construction of the bass above all. You can get a good B string on 34” as well. Some basses just have a good B string sound and others don’t. If it doesn’t have a good B string then there is not much you can do. You can change strings but that doesn’t suddenly make a weak B string much better.

sure your bass has to be setup right but that goes for every string, not just the B string. If a B string is weaker than the rest of the strings the setup doesn’t have much influence on the string balance. You can put your pickup a bit higher on the B string side, but that makes the E also louder

 

[jemerpi]

Some B strings are better and some basses better support B string articulation. The key is to have both, along with a good setup.

I began to discover what worked from watching lots of YouTube reviews.

I play fivers and mostly sixers.

 

[fauxtoe]

So, you have found a B string you like!

I found a B string that worked, which is quite literally anything long enough and isn't tapered. The tapered string would have been absolutely fine had it not sounded like absolute dog poo (you could hear a weird intonation warble in a live playback when I fretted an E) and it was just as tight as the non-tapered string. Should also mention the two 35" scale basses I own have carbon fiber necks and both exhibited the same problem at the beginning. I also have one in 34" and it sounds good and tight without about anything.

DR Lo-Riders (nickel or steel) or Pure Blues with a .125" B are my usual go-to because they are already wound for a 35" scale length and are generally readily available. My 34" scale 5's without a CF neck usually get Ernie Ball Slinky, 45, 65, 80, 100, 125.