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What am I missing?

K

Kevinmach

Dec 7, 2008
248
0
#1
I have currently been practicing with my buddies via a small PA head with 2- 12" Peavy speakers with horns.

It's a 4 channel so it's an added bonus to be able to run my keys or eventually, vocals through them when I am ready to add them.

It doesn't sound bad at all, I am fairly happy with the sound quite honestly, but I haven't been playing bass all that long (originally a guitard).. and I wondering, what am I really missing sound wise by *not* using a head made specifically for bass?

I suppose the best way find out is simply by listening to stuff at GC, but then again, it obviously won't be the same bass and effects that I will be using. So it's not an ideal comparison.

Though I have more experience with this stuff in with guitar, the sound difference is a bit more obvious between a guitar head and playing a guitar through a PA head. But not so much with bass.

So, can anyone tell me what I am really losing by not playing through an amp specifically designed for bass as opposed to a PA?
 
#2
The only two potential issues I can think of are:
Wattage--do you have enough?
EQ--are the EQ controls sufficient for your needs, and do they affect frequency ranges that are useful to you?

Aside from them, it's just down to subjective tone preferences, and maybe extra features like a tuner out jack or an effects loop, etc.
 
#3
I'd suggest the power problem as well.

Lower notes/frequencies tend to require more power to reproduce. Atleast from what I've noticed.

For example, 100w heads are very common for guitar, and for the most part, this is often plenty for a guitarist to keep up in a band mix.

In the realm of bass heads, 100w really isn't considered much at all - atleast for keeping up with a band. 100w would barely get you a practice amp/stage monitor setup.

If you are only playing quietly to practice, or if your PA has lots of power - probably you will be ok.
 
#5
Kevinmach said:
I suppose the best way find out is simply by listening to stuff at GC, but then again, it obviously won't be the same bass and effects that I will be using. So it's not an ideal comparison.
Click to expand...

My best advice for you would be to take your bass and effects into GC. They get that all the time. They shouldn't mind if you drag your stuff in there. I used to work at a music store. I would PREFER when my customers brought their stuff to try with ours.
 
#7
12 inch pa spkrs in a pa enclosure will not likely be optimized for bass. Our pa has 18 inch subs for me \:-). Go and listen to some real bass gear, or a PA put together to support bass. You will hear the light:D.
 
#8
lomo said:
12 inch pa spkrs in a pa enclosure will not likely be optimized for bass. Our pa has 18 inch subs for me \:-). Go and listen to some real bass gear, or a PA put together to support bass. You will hear the light:D.
Click to expand...

Seconded. Power is not the issue. EQ might be. Speakers and frequency response are almost ALWAYS the issue. Get a cheap active sub and run the mixer's line out to it or run it in the FX loop after the FX devices, if any. Play with the mixer's EQ and the sub's internal X-over and volume to get the best sound. Position it at the back of the stage/practice space, facing into a corner. Boundary reinforcement will make up for it's limitations.

Down the road, look at preamps and FX pedal, Multi FX, etc.
 
#9
lomo said:
12 inch pa spkrs in a pa enclosure will not likely be optimized for bass.
Click to expand...

+ another one. That and the EQ shaping available in a real bass preamp are the two main differences.

A bass amp is really three systems: the preamp, the power amp and the speaker cabinet(s). On the PA, only the power amp is similar (if it has sufficient power).
 
#10
Thanks for the replies guys.

Ok, I admit the EQ sucks, just a low/mid/hi setting, but why I use the EQ on the effects processor or get a different one? But that's a fair point in any case.

I've read stuff on Pre-amps a long time ago including some links that bongo had, and it confused the hell out of me, quite honestly.

And I figured the cabinets would be the one thing that would be the most similar. Almost all you guys use rigs with no tweeters/highs?

I am definitely not opposed to buying new gear at some point after we've been jamming a little longer, it's just for fun now anyway.
 
#11
Tweeters are common in bass cabs, it's about the speakers ability to handle large amounts of power and the design of the box itself to try to faithfully reproduce the frequency range of the bass guitar.
 
#12
Kevinmach said:
Thanks for the replies guys.

Ok, I admit the EQ sucks, just a low/mid/hi setting, but why I use the EQ on the effects processor or get a different one? But that's a fair point in any case.

I've read stuff on Pre-amps a long time ago including some links that bongo had, and it confused the hell out of me, quite honestly.

And I figured the cabinets would be the one thing that would be the most similar. Almost all you guys use rigs with no tweeters/highs?

I am definitely not opposed to buying new gear at some point after we've been jamming a little longer, it's just for fun now anyway.
Click to expand...

Just to add that many, many bassists don't use an amp at all. When recording in the studio or touring at a high level, often the bass sound you hear either live or on a recording is the bass into either a recording console or PA using your direct box.

So, conceptually, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing.

Your issue is cab and PA head quality, tuning and power. It will be fine for what you are doing, but as mentioned above, the speakers in your PA cabs are probably more midrange drivers than speakers optimized for bass, and the PA power is probably not enough to drive keys, bass and vocals at a gig level.

Relax and have fun playing out of it. When you start to feel that the low end isn't quite enough and that the volume isn't quite enough and that 'something might be missing', then you will have the joy of getting out your wallet and shopping for a proper rig!
 
#14
smogg said:
Tweeters are common in bass cabs, it's about the speakers ability to handle large amounts of power and the design of the box itself to try to faithfully reproduce the frequency range of the bass guitar.
Click to expand...

There are very few boxes that are "faithful" to anything but the sonic characteristics that the company decides is what a bass should sound like. Most commercial bass boxes are designed to achieve a tone or price point, not flat reproduction.
 
#15
Relax and have fun playing out of it. When you start to feel that the low end isn't quite enough and that the volume isn't quite enough and that 'something might be missing', then you will have the joy of getting out your wallet and shopping for a proper rig!
Click to expand...

Yes, this is exactly what I am doing for the moment. My drummer has already complained that my schedule is too busy and we don't practice enough to even keep interesting at the fun level (and he's not wrong), so investing in new gear is not a good idea at this point. I was just wondering if there was something huge I was missing sound wise by not using a proper bass amp, for lack of a better word.

It will be fine for what you are doing, but as mentioned above, the speakers in your PA cabs are probably more midrange drivers than speakers optimized for bass, and the PA power is probably not enough to drive keys, bass and vocals at a gig level.
Click to expand...

I agree, I think the thing is well under 100w (nearly really looked), but damn is it loud. But pushing vocals, keys, and bass at the same time, that I have not tried. I am guessing the sound quality would suffer across the board, so it's nothing I would try to actually gig with.
 
#16
ihixulu said:
There are very few boxes that are "faithful" to anything but the sonic characteristics that the company decides is what a bass should sound like. Most commercial bass boxes are designed to achieve a tone or price point, not flat reproduction.
Click to expand...

Try was the key word in my statement and yes tone is very subjective. However, a low/mid level 112 PA cab is not gonna hold up to long at band volume and will probably start breaking up and/or farting below its LF roll off.
 
#18
ihixulu said:
And I'm saying that most commercial manufacturers don't even try. Regarding power handling, no comment.
Click to expand...

Your points are very valid. IME at very low volumes you can dial a usable tone out of just about any box. At gigging volume I want a box that can handle the punishment and give me the sound I want. And again I realize tone is very subjective, it's nice we have so many choices nowadays.
 
#19
lomo said:
12 inch pa spkrs in a pa enclosure will not likely be optimized for bass. Our pa has 18 inch subs for me \:-). Go and listen to some real bass gear, or a PA put together to support bass. You will hear the light:D.
Click to expand...


Bingo. 12" PA cabs are even more under-engineered than most commercial bass cabs. 12" small PA cabs are really optimized for things in the vocal range and without much in the way of bass.

Also, the minute you start cramming bass, vocals, keys, etc. through it all at the same time, your 'sound' is going to go south quick. If using such a setup (and we often do) I prefer to keep the PA lines minimal...all vocal, just a bit of keys if I have to...a little kick if absolutely necessary.

Also, if you're running an monitors of that same board and you're using bass in there, there's a good chance you're upping the feedback ante.
 
#20
BurningSkies said:
Bingo. 12" PA cabs are even more under-engineered than most commercial bass cabs. 12" small PA cabs are really optimized for things in the vocal range and without much in the way of bass.
Click to expand...

Some of the very best club PA boxes around in any price tier are actually built around 12" woofers. Their engineering is often at a level bass cabs can only aspire to. But they are designed around the assumption that if bass content of any appreciable level is desired, that subwoofers will be present. Thus the mains woofers are often designed for 100 Hz+ output, and the enclosure size is chosen for 100+ Hz output. Thus even the best 12" two-way mains are not often going to make for decent bass rigs.
 

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