What do more costly basses provide?

[Relayer71]

It‘s one of those pointless threads that you can only discuss if you spend more time pooping than playing bass. Gear does not matter. Setup and technique does.

Gear matters if you want it to matter. Some people view instruments as tools, some as works of art. Nothing wrong with either view. Who says you can't play well AND like fancier top woods or finishes?

The car analogy has been done to death but if you can afford to drive something really eye-catching or unique, why not? They both get you to your destination, sure, but you only live once.

If Talkbass only had practical advise and opinions, it would be pretty dull around here.

And now you've gone and offended people who poop. That's a whole other can you've opened

 

[CallMeAl]

OK.

I had the chance to try out a Sterling S.U.B. StingRay 5 last night, which is as close to a direct comparison to my EBMM StingRay 5.

The differences were noticeable the moment I picked up the Sterling.

The neck didn't have the same feel, or even close to the same feel, as my 'Ray 5.

The string spacing, while probably the same, felt narrower. I didn't measure or know the measurements off hand, but it did feel narrower between strings.

When I plugged it in to an Ampeg BA115, the same amp I have at home, the sound was close to a StingRay. It was thinner than that of my 'Ray 5, and that's after adjusting the EQ, both on board the bass and at the amp.

The neck also had a gloss finish. I don't know if this is standard for the Sterling 'Ray models, but my 'Ray 5 has the gunstock oil and wax neck, and they are worlds apart in difference. I would never choose the glossy finish over the gunstock oil and wax.

Which leads me to price.

The Sterling 'Ray was $329 new.

My 'Ray was $2400 or so, new.

Did what I experience last night justify the nearly two grand in cost difference? Yes, to me.

The Sterling wasn't a bad instrument, but it wasn't on par with the USA made EBMM 'Ray. Everything about it felt cheap, not low cost, but like everything came from the lowest quality bidder.

Will the Sterling S.U.B. work for people? Absolutely, it was a very serviceable bass.

But there isn't much chance of one following me home anytime soon.

I have been testing a lot of Jazz basses, and had similar conclusions. They all sounded good-to-great, but what I really noticed was the necks.

Affinity- neck finish noticeably raw and sloppy fret ends. Things I can fix, but I would need to fix them.
Player- nice satin finish and clean frets. I play a MIM Standard neck currently, and quality felt similar.
Am Pro- fantastic neck! Like buttah’ as they say. I can’t afford MIA ATM, but I think if I got used to that , I’d have a hard time going back!

So I think a lot of it has to do with what one is accustomed to. And if you can’t be with the one you love honey, love the one you’re with!

 

[ad9000]

I agree with some other commenters that there are some pretty damn decent basses out there for dirt cheap, certainly more than ever before. I think it's all down to what your needs are, though.

I just went to a shop and played a couple of Alleva Coppolo basses, both with price tags over $4K (and one of them is pre-owned). They are basically Fender-inspired instruments and about as good as it gets in that realm in terms of workmanship, finishing and materials. Do they sound and play four times better than a $1K bass? Probably not, but someone, either a wealthy hobbyist or a player for whom they check all the boxes, will find them desirable and will pony up. Actually, I find them highly desirable but I can't justify spending that much on a bass.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Appearance shouldn't have that much to do with it considering that you and your bass spend a large majority of your lives sitting playing in your bedroom. The amount of stage time is so little in the big picture of life that it should be feel and sound that matters more than looks.

Sure, if you and your audience are blind.

 

[OpposableThumbs]

Less hog anus?

Oh I just laughed out loud! I'm still chuckling.....

 

[vindibona1]

I have been testing a lot of Jazz basses, and had similar conclusions. They all sounded good-to-great, but what I really noticed was the necks...
Am Pro- fantastic neck! Like buttah’ as they say. I can’t afford MIA ATM, but I think if I got used to that , I’d have a hard time going back!...So I think a lot of it has to do with what one is accustomed to. And if you can’t be with the one you love honey, love the one you’re with!

I agree... and this is partially what confuses me. My Squire VM70's jazz has a very refined neck from a feel standpoint and now has great upgraded pickups. To my ears it sounds really good- to the extent of my playing ability. To stay in the discussion of jazz basses, I picked up a mint condition Fender MIM Jazz5 (see avatar) for $400. I like the neck MUCH better than the newer MIA necks. That modern C on the new necks displaces my thumb and causes my left hand to cramp. I love the neck on my MIM. This bass now has Aguilar noiseless pickups, and an Audere ProZ preamp. My only gripe is that it was a little heavy and a little imbalanced toward the the head. I just ordered some Hipshot Ultralight tuners that should reduce the weight around 1/2 pound. I've got around $800 total in this bass and having played the new Fender MIA's, if I can get the weight and balance under control I'm not sure how I can do much better. I love the way it plays.

I agree with some other commenters that there are some pretty damn decent basses out there for dirt cheap, certainly more than ever before. I think it's all down to what your needs are, though.My #1 grab-and-go bass is a 2017 Fender Elite Jazz V (with some mods) that I bought used for $1450.

I think I caught myself by surprise as I didn't anticipate my needs or enthusiasm once I got going. After I modded my 4 string Squire, I found a need for a 5 string as the shows I was starting to do had written low D's and C's, and now even a couple B's (the singers' range caused us to drop a few tunes a minor 3rd). I ended up with 3, "mid-level" 5 strings and wonder if I should sell one and "go higher"? Perhaps the answer is that my playing and rig wouldn't make an additional investment worth the money. Yet OTOH, from a playing standpoint I don't think any of my basses are holding me back. They all play terrifically.

As far as "cheapies" go... I came across a deal I couldn't refuse. A used 6 string Ibanez Gio for $100. It sells new for $300. It also came with a deluxe Gator case included in the price. $100? So WTH? The pickups are low end and the original preamp was shot and the $15 preamp I replaced it with isn't much better... I'll bet with some Barts and a commensurate preamp this would be an amazing bass. I find it hard to find much structural difference between my Gio and the mid level Ibanez SR's. At some point I'll put some effort into acclimating to the 6er. Going to 5 string was tough enough.

 

[thabassmon]

Not a lot.

I can understand that if someone has spent a lot of hours on an instrument then they wanna be paid for it.

I can't really understand things being expensive just because they're old, or rare or even someone "famous" has played it especially if it is actually just a standard production line instrument to begin with.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Not a lot.

I can understand that if someone has spent a lot of hours on an instrument then they wanna be paid for it.

I can't really understand things being expensive just because they're old, or rare or even someone "famous" has played it especially if it is actually just a standard production line instrument to begin with.

I hate to say it but, that's capitalism for ya.

 

[amper]

Sounds like you found the right bass for you, and the gamble on a CT would not be worthwhile.
It's really very much like buying a Porsche.

I can't even imagine comparing a Rickenbacker, a Warwick, and a StingRay. Or a Porsche and Ferrari and a Ford. Three totally different beasts, each amazing in their own way.

 

[amper]

Thanks for clarifying the question.
With the Zon - they have a fretless tone that is pretty unique, and is closest to what I hear in my head.
The composite neck - nobody else does them the same way. There are other graphite-based necks, but not quite the same.
The quality and beauty of the woods used. And the amazing playability. I smile every day when I see it, and smile more when I play it.
Plus the quality and knowledge of the builder, who provided great guidance in choice of woods and flexibility in meeting my design specs, which were different than anything he had built previously. Not radically different, but different, and *right for me*.

I really need someone with better skills to photograph it. But this'll do for now.
View attachment 3713440

Zons are amazing instruments. I've never owned one, but I've demoed them, and would absolutely buy one or more, if money was no object. They are in a class of their own.

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

I can't even imagine comparing a Rickenbacker, a Warwick, and a StingRay. Or a Porsche and Ferrari and a Ford. Three totally different beasts, each amazing in their own way.

The Ric developed a horrible bow about a week after taking it home, so bad that it was beyond repair and I returned it to GC when I got the Warwick.

It was great—serious beefy low end—but a bit heavy for me. I tried really hard to get used to the weight, but I just couldn’t at the time. So I traded it in and that’s when I found my first ‘Ray.

I want another Warwick—a Thumb 5–and one of the new Ric 5 bangers. I’ll get them, too, in time.

But first is a new amp and then the hot pink ‘Ray 5 in the EB Vault.

 

[CallMeAl]

My Squire VM70's jazz has a very refined neck from a feel standpoint and now has great upgraded pickups. To my ears it sounds really good- to the extent of my playing ability.

I’ve found most VM/CV necks I come across are pretty great. Now, I don’t care for the gloss necks- but that’s a comment on my preferences, not quality. I can always just take one home and sand it myself.

I’ve said this before- my willingness to swap parts, file frets, refinish necks, etc has given me a bass way beyond my pay grade. It’s like I found a loophole!

Yet OTOH, from a playing standpoint I don't think any of my basses are holding me back. They all play terrifically.

And this was my ultimate conclusion as well. For a while I had “my sights set” on a “better” bass. but when I realized it was just a nicety and wouldn’t make me a better musician, the thought has left my mind.

 

[vindibona1]

I’ve found most VM/CV necks I come across are pretty great. Now, I don’t care for the gloss necks- but that’s a comment on my preferences, not quality. I can always just take one home and sand it myself.

My Squire VM is a 2010 or 11 model and has a satin neck. My Jazz5 has a gloss neck, but it isn't thick gloss like many, so it has very little "stiction". BTW... If someone likes the look of gloss but hates the feel, I've had success in scotchbriting the neck to lite satin, then buffing back the gloss. It retains the look but loses the stiction.

I’ve said this before- my willingness to swap parts, file frets, refinish necks, etc has given me a bass way beyond my pay grade. It’s like I found a loophole!

I don't like refinishing, but I did refinish the face of the head on my Squire to be clear gloss. The satin just didn't have the pizzazz I thought it needed.

One cheap tool that I use frequently is a DIAMOND FINGERNAIL FILE to round off fret ends. I've become quite good, to the point where I don't even have to mask the neck. I work on the frets one at a time and just go by feel. I try to get at them during drier weather... Except now my whole house has a humidification system that keeps us between 40%-50%, even in the winter. Right now it's 18° outside and 40%RIH in my studio area.

And this was my ultimate conclusion as well. For a while I had “my sights set” on a “better” bass. but when I realized it was just a nicety and wouldn’t make me a better musician, the thought has left my mind.

I'm a fairly accomplished all-round musician, having played in symphony orchestras, big bands, concert bands, rock bands (as a kid), worship groups and musical theater. What I do not have enough experience with is KNOWING what am ideal bass sound is for most situations. IMO, (at least for me) that's the hardest part; learning what is considered appropriate for certain types of music and ensembles. I know that some will reply saying "whatever sounds good to you"- to which I would have to reply- "I'm not yet qualified to make that assessment". And I suppose that's part of what I was seeking in wondering how more expensive or even different basses might best better for me or others in my position. With all my musical performing experience I'm still learning about bass sounds.

 

[bassbenj]

Not a lot.

I can understand that if someone has spent a lot of hours on an instrument then they wanna be paid for it.

I can't really understand things being expensive just because they're old, or rare or even someone "famous" has played it especially if it is actually just a standard production line instrument to begin with.

How about this. If you really want a certain thing then you have to pay what people ask to get one. And if that thing is rare, and other people want one too then you start bidding against each other (probably not actual bidding but just market forces) and the price goes up until nobody will pay it. Now I don't want something just because it's old or was played by some famous person, but there are people who do. On the other hand I might pay more for a bass that feels and plays just the way I like even if it was just some luck-out on a widely sold production bass. If it doesn't feel the way I like then it's just someone's old production bass junk to me. Point is if you really want to own a certain thing, then you have to pay what people are asking for it. If you don't want that, then why would anyone waste their money on it?

 

[PeteCarlton]

for me the sweet spot tends to be in the $1500 range

 

[CallMeAl]

My Squire VM is a 2010 or 11 model and has a satin neck. My Jazz5 has a gloss neck, but it isn't thick gloss like many, so it has very little "stiction". BTW... If someone likes the look of gloss but hates the feel, I've had success in scotchbriting the neck to lite satin, then buffing back the gloss. It retains the look but loses the stiction.


I don't like refinishing, but I did refinish the face of the head on my Squire to be clear gloss. The satin just didn't have the pizzazz I thought it needed.

One cheap tool that I use frequently is a DIAMOND FINGERNAIL FILE to round off fret ends. I've become quite good, to the point where I don't even have to mask the neck. I work on the frets one at a time and just go by feel. I try to get at them during drier weather... Except now my whole house has a humidification system that keeps us between 40%-50%, even in the winter. Right now it's 18° outside and 40%RIH in my studio area.
.

I’ve only done one full strip-and-refinish. I redid it in tru oil, it was time consuming but came out very nice. Most of my work has been simple light sanding. Your scotch brite trick is a great example of a cheap-and-easy mod that can lower cost yet raise value. (If that’s the owner’s preference.)

I’ve heard about the diamond nail file, but I ended up buying a stew Mac file and I love that thing. Fret sprout used to bum me out, but now it ain’t no thang!

I'm a fairly accomplished all-round musician, having played in symphony orchestras, big bands, concert bands, rock bands (as a kid), worship groups and musical theater. What I do not have enough experience with is KNOWING what am ideal bass sound is for most situations. IMO, (at least for me) that's the hardest part; learning what is considered appropriate for certain types of music and ensembles. I know that some will reply saying "whatever sounds good to you"- to which I would have to reply- "I'm not yet qualified to make that assessment". And I suppose that's part of what I was seeking in wondering how more expensive or even different basses might best better for me or others in my position. With all my musical performing experience I'm still learning about bass sounds.

And as far as instrument choice: I have a similar background. Trumpet since grade school, music Ed classes, dabbled in just about every instrument in my adult life. only in the past few years I decided to go “all in” on bass and make it my primary instrument.

I think in the horn world, there is more structure. A trumpeter has a flugelhorn, a coronet, a C horn, etc; but they pull them out when the sheet calls for it. There is little debate; instruments are seen as tools.

Why is it different in the bass and guitar world? Maybe there’s more of a DIY, self taught culture? Maybe because we can change our pickups, we think we should? Maybe there’s decision paralysis because of the dizzying array of options? The instrument as a tool concept is more easily buried.

I’ve been playing a P bass for a little over a year now, and it just works for me. I get compliments often, but it’s rarely the tone- it’s my playing. I believe I could be equally successful with any bass. Just So happens the P clicks with me. Its to the point now I don’t have to think about it, I just play.

If I was playing pro level, then I would have a more robust stable. But I just play for fun (and a little money) so the P bass does all I need it to. My work ethic, reliability and musicianship is why I get along well in my bands, and has little to to with the bass I bring.

 

[chris_b]

I've spent $2000 twice and IMO I bought basses that in all respects suited me better than any other bass I've tried. At this point I'm done looking. This is where all my bass playing needs have been met.

 

[Indiana Mike]

Nothing wrong with a $300 bass.
Nothing wrong with a $10k bass.


I'm pretty much done with budget models. Zero desire for vintage gear. Just my preference.

I've got three nice basses now and am pretty much done looking. A jazz ,P and a Ric.

 

[vindibona1]

I’ve only done one full strip-and-refinish. I redid it in tru oil, it was time consuming but came out very nice. Most of my work has been simple light sanding. Your scotch brite trick is a great example of a cheap-and-easy mod that can lower cost yet raise value. (If that’s the owner’s preference.)

I’ve heard about the diamond nail file, but I ended up buying a stew Mac file and I love that thing. Fret sprout used to bum me out, but now it ain’t no thang!


And as far as instrument choice: I have a similar background. Trumpet since grade school, music Ed classes, dabbled in just about every instrument in my adult life. only in the past few years I decided to go “all in” on bass and make it my primary instrument.

I think in the horn world, there is more structure. A trumpeter has a flugelhorn, a coronet, a C horn, etc; but they pull them out when the sheet calls for it. There is little debate; instruments are seen as tools.

Why is it different in the bass and guitar world? Maybe there’s more of a DIY, self taught culture? Maybe because we can change our pickups, we think we should? Maybe there’s decision paralysis because of the dizzying array of options? The instrument as a tool concept is more easily buried.

I’ve been playing a P bass for a little over a year now, and it just works for me. I get compliments often, but it’s rarely the tone- it’s my playing. I believe I could be equally successful with any bass. Just So happens the P clicks with me. Its to the point now I don’t have to think about it, I just play.

If I was playing pro level, then I would have a more robust stable. But I just play for fun (and a little money) so the P bass does all I need it to. My work ethic, reliability and musicianship is why I get along well in my bands, and has little to to with the bass I bring.

We probably have similar backgrounds. I have a music ed degree and actually taught HS band for a few years. I played guitar, then bass back in HS 60's rock groups, but switched to trumpet full time as they didn't offer guitar in college at the time. I still play trumpet in a professional level ensemble and got bitten again by the guitar bug which led me back to bass... And then I started getting hired to play musicals- because I could read. But the orchestrators would regularly score the bass parts below the low E on a 4 string. The obvious solution was 5 string bass. And I practice every day. But as a bass hack, aspiring to more professional stuff, I have to wonder if the gear I have is good enough. I love playing bass and am hooked and want to expand my playing. But yeah, at this point I'm probably ok with the gear I have, except I've yet to own a P bass. I wonder how hard it is to modify a jazz bass to be a PJ?

 

[CallMeAl]

We probably have similar backgrounds. I have a music ed degree and actually taught HS band for a few years. I played guitar, then bass back in HS 60's rock groups, but switched to trumpet full time as they didn't offer guitar in college at the time. I still play trumpet in a professional level ensemble and got bitten again by the guitar bug which led me back to bass... And then I started getting hired to play musicals- because I could read. But the orchestrators would regularly score the bass parts below the low E on a 4 string. The obvious solution was 5 string bass. And I practice every day. But as a bass hack, aspiring to more professional stuff, I have to wonder if the gear I have is good enough. I love playing bass and am hooked and want to expand my playing. But yeah, at this point I'm probably ok with the gear I have, except I've yet to own a P bass. I wonder how hard it is to modify a jazz bass to be a PJ?

Well you got the gig, so it’s gotta be “good enough,” right?

some J basses are pre-routed to accept a P pickup; otherwise you just get it routed. Then find a Jazz PG cut for a P pickup. But, it sounds like you’re covered. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn’t bother!