What do more costly basses provide?

[DJ Bebop]

This is based only on what I've seen, but I often wonder if builders like Fodera, Zon, and MTD are in this boat.

I'm not disparaging their instruments, far from it, but I do wonder if the finished product really does warrant the price of admission. Then again, I want a Carl Thompson, and the same questioning could be applied to that desire as well.

But that does make me wonder--will there ever be an objective answer to the OP's question?

Off topic--nice interocitor.

I agree, in the end, it's all just wire and wood. Some are built better than others. Only the buyer can make the determination if it's worth the price of admission to them. If it is, you've made a good deal. If not, move along, nothing to see here
Wire and wood, wire and wood.

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

I agree, in the end, it's all just wire and wood. Some are built better than others. Only the buyer can make the determination if it's worth the price of admission to them. If it is, you've made a good deal. If not, move along, nothing to see here
Wire and wood, wire and wood.

That's the weird thing, these things being wire and wood.

I know that the basic components of a Squier do the same thing as more expensive components in, say, an MTD bass.

But my, how different those wires and that wood sound!

For me, I will always (at least, I'd like to think so) think the price of admission for a StingRay is worth it. Others simply won't for any number of reasons. The StingRay's combination of wires and wood just makes me happy in a way a Fender J doesn't. I know this 'cause I had a Fender J--Adam Clayton sig model--and sold it after it was left sitting in the case for more than 6 months.

But a CT, that's a different beast. Outside of the few offers of other TBers to let me test play their CT basses, the only way to know if one is "The One" is to plunk down the cash, wait a year or a few, and then give it a go. If it's a lemon for any reason, seems to me you're out a f*ck ton of money. And the thing is, will that f*ck ton of money have netted a better instrument than, say, a $2500 Warwick?

But you are right, it's just wires and wood.

I like the way the wood looks of a CT. I like the sound the wires make of a CT.

But is it worth it? I can't answer that question yet, so I'll settle for getting an SVT Anniversary head and SVT 212AV cab instead!

 

[Doctor Morbius]

But that does make me wonder--will there ever be an objective answer to the OP's question?

Off topic--nice interocitor.

I don't think it's possible to have an "objective" answer, otherwise this wouldn't be such a frequent topic on TB and other forums. People want what they want and fortunately, in a free society we're given that choice.

The OP may be looking for confirmation bias to reaffirm his/her own choices. I don't know. But everyone has their own comfort level of spending.

For me personally, I don't really "need" a Mercedes GLE Coupe as a grocery getter when an old Toyota hatchback will do. However, if one fell into my lap or I won a HUGE lottery, I may change my tune. Same with guitars/basses. I have a couple of thin skin '62 AVRIs that sit in their cases in a closet as I tend to grab something more pedestrian. For me that's anything from an MIM partscaster Strat to an American Standard Strat.

Would I be better off selling all my inexpensive guitars, of which there are several, in order to buy one or two really nice ones, or just keep and play the AVRIs? I honestly can't say. I do like variety, but with nearly 20 guitars and basses I'd say I've overdone it.

Keep in mind I grew up with depression era parents who didn't splurge on material items. They couldn't. And to an extent I seem to follow in their footsteps and do my shopping at T.J. Max rather than Parisians or some boutique. I have a hard time spending $20 for a t-shirt when I can buy several for $3 new at places like Walmart. And until a $20 t-shirt can make me extremely attractive to college girls, I'm probably not going to spend that much.

 

[DJ Bebop]

That's the weird thing, these things being wire and wood.

I know that the basic components of a Squier do the same thing as more expensive components in, say, an MTD bass.

But my, how different those wires and that wood sound!

For me, I will always (at least, I'd like to think so) think the price of admission for a StingRay is worth it. Others simply won't for any number of reasons. The StingRay's combination of wires and wood just makes me happy in a way a Fender J doesn't. I know this 'cause I had a Fender J--Adam Clayton sig model--and sold it after it was left sitting in the case for more than 6 months.

But a CT, that's a different beast. Outside of the few offers of other TBers to let me test play their CT basses, the only way to know if one is "The One" is to plunk down the cash, wait a year or a few, and then give it a go. If it's a lemon for any reason, seems to me you're out a f*ck ton of money. And the thing is, will that f*ck ton of money have netted a better instrument than, say, a $2500 Warwick?

But you are right, it's just wires and wood.

I like the way the wood looks of a CT. I like the sound the wires make of a CT.

But is it worth it? I can't answer that question yet, so I'll settle for getting an SVT Anniversary head and SVT 212AV cab instead!

As I said, some builds of wire and wood are better. It's up to the individual if the price is right for them.
Myself, unless someone wants to fund me, as nice as some wire and wood combinations are. I can't justify myself spending that much for my level of talent and amount of gigging That's not to say you or him or her can't get their favorite wire and wood combination of their choice no matter the cost

As I've said before, no matter what I play, I always sound like me

I've played high-end wire and wood and as nice as they are, I don't hear them making me sound much better than I do on the stuff I play. Again I'm not saying they're not nice just, not an improvement of me, for me.

I find the time I spend in the woodshed makes more of an improvement than worrying about the wood
But that's just me

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

As I said, some builds of wire and wood are better. It's up to the individual if the price is right for them.
Myself, unless someone wants to fund me, as nice as some wire and wood combinations are. I can't justify myself spending that much for my level of talent and amount of gigging That's not to say you or him or her can't get their favorite wire and wood combination of their choice no matter the cost

As I've said before, no matter what I play, I always sound like me

I've played high-end wire and wood and as nice as they are, I don't hear them making me sound much better than I do on the stuff I play. Again I'm not saying they're not nice just, not an improvement of me, for me.

I find the time I spend in the woodshed makes more of an improvement than worrying about the wood
But that's just me

Everything you just said is why I’m spending money on a new amp rather than a new bass, mainly because my amp sounds like sh!t.

A new bass would be fun, especially a CT, but won’t make me sound better, or any more “me” than I already do. And I really don’t want to take a $10k gamble, no matter how revered CT basses are.

Maybe one day I’ll have a spare ten large lying around asking to be spent on something.

That day is not today, for me. Maybe it is for someone else.

 

[ERIC31]

Repeating what has been said 1000x before....

You can hand any of our bass superheroes a $60 eBay import bass and they would smoke on it and sound like themselves. Just like handing a $5k Warwick (for example) to a novice player and they would not sound that good. The wood and wire is important but no substitute for knowledge of playing and many hours of practice to play your preferred style at maximum proficiency.

Just my .02 cents.......

 

[pappabass]

Got to have that artisanal nickel.

I say it needs NASA space shuttle nickel Removed from an active Volcano

 

[chris_b]

I'd expect more costly basses to feel, play and sound better. If they don't then stick with what you've got.

If you find a bass that is an improvement in every area, check it's within budget and buy it.

 

[vindibona1]

What a firestorm. Sorry I asked.

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

What a firestorm. Sorry I asked.

I wouldn't take it that hard, I mean, these kinds of threads always tend to go down this rabbit hole--you get the high end snobs proclaiming the greatness of their costly investment, and then you get the cheapskates who swoon over getting a bass that sounds great to them for $25.

And then you get a decent dose of middle ground people.

This is Talk Bass, after all.

Any post asking for commentary on "value" is going to turn into a bit of a sh!tshow.

 

[dreamadream99]

What do more costly basses provide?

Peace of mind.

 

[bucephylus]

What a firestorm. Sorry I asked.

You posed a reasonable, if somewhat previously discussed Q three days ago; did not engage in any further discourse; and now appear to essentially insult all who took the time to respond.

Sorry we wasted your time.

 

[vindibona1]

Before I comment on your OP, perhaps you might consider answering one question. Why did you start a thread that generates 7 pages of responses; but, only participate with one additional post? FWIW, that makes your OP appear to be trolling.

Anyhow...

The OP does pose a fair Q, which continues to be discussed on TB. There are a number of aspects to consider.

First, Econ 101 says that price is all about supply, demand, and specifications. Bass Guitar pricing is no different.

But, the OP goes one step further, asking what do higher priced instruments do that lower priced instruments do not. Fair enough.

The answer lies in understanding the range of gig requirements, for which players compete. There is a huge range of gigs! Thus a huge range of basses. It’s like picking the right set of clothes for the occasion.

Let’s take our upright brothers and sisters for just a moment. If one plays in a major symphony orchestra as a gig, the orchestra typically will prefer a VERY expensive, possibly 200+ year old instrument. Why? Generally for a combination of tonal and aesthetic reasons. Do 200 yo Italian basses necessarily sound better than high quality current production basses. Not to most critical ears; but, that’s the gig. Do the 200 yo Italian basses sound better than Kay plywood basses? To an untrained ear, I would say no; but, the player certainly can discriminate the differences.

Basically same thing for electric bass guitars. And, you have to understand that there is an entirely separate collector market overlaid on the older Fender instruments. So, no, in many cases price does not equate to instrument playing qualities.

Smaller builders, such as Alembic and Fodera as examples, charge what they need to charge to build their differentiated products and stay in business. The fact that they stay in business suggests that the demand exists. Do their tonal qualities appropriately scale from an MIM Fender bass? Clearly from a player perspective, the continued demand says yes. But, players both experience the instrument in a different way from a listener and are subject to different gig requirements. So, the average listener may not be able to differentiate the Alembic from the MIM Fender; whereas the player is just trying to hold down the competitive gig and sound as good as they can.

To address your own Q, I would suggest that you go out and try to play an Alembic Series I / II bass and an MIM Fender through the same rig and come to your own conclusions. When in doubt, try the extremes. I expect you would readily experience the differences. Whether or not those differences are important to your listeners depends entirely on your gig.

And, then there is all the stuff in the middle.

Hope that TL;DR answer addresses your Q.

Interesting that you cite acoustic basses. As one who plays acoustic guitar and has a collection of both acoustic and electric guitars, there is little comparison between the two types of standard 6 string guitars. Being a former symphony player I am familiar with upright basses, though never played one outside of college. The acoustic instrument is not dependent on electrics and thus must create it's own tone without the benefit of pickups or electronic equalization.

I've also had a lot of experience modding electric guitars, which in my mind brought up the subject. I've modded a lot of Strats, from Squiers to (my own) MIA Deluxe as well as cheap Chibson Les Pauls comparing to my numbered, limited edition Gibson Les Paul. And you know what? There isn't all that much difference if the guitar has the right "bones" to be upgraded. In fact, my Chibson played so well and sounded so good that I ended up selling the Gibson as it would never be gigged.The result being, with pickups, wires and proper setup there wasn't all that much difference between my cheapest and most expensive electrics...

And I was simply wondering if there was something in more expensive basses that might be different than electric guitars. One thing I noticed in general was that the strings on a bass affect the sound significantly more than they do on electric guitars. To be honest I've not been able to play a lot of "better" basses. The ones in the store tend to be higher end Fenders, and to be honest, I wouldn't trade my upgraded MIM for any of them. I wish there were more higher end basses available to try near me. So, I was just asking for folks who own better basses why they chose what they chose.

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

And I was simply wondering if there was something in more expensive basses that might be different than electric guitars. One thing I noticed in general was that the strings on a bass affect the sound significantly more than they do on electric guitars. To be honest I've not been able to play a lot of "better" basses. The ones in the store tend to be higher end Fenders, and to be honest, I wouldn't trade my upgraded MIM for any of them. I wish there were more higher end basses available to try near me. So, I was just asking for folks who own better basses why they chose what they chose.

For me, nothing I've played plays like a StingRay, or offers the same tone and ergonomic combination. I've played Fender, Ibanez, LTD, Rickenbacker, and Warwick. None of those basses had the je ne sais quoi of the 'Ray. At the end of the day, the 'Ray just feels like me when I play it--an extension of my mind and heart.

Sure I could build a frankenbass to get pretty damn close, if not nail the tone and feel exactly.

However, I do not have the skillset to do that one my own, and the cost of having a bass built for me would probably eclipse the sticker price of a new 'Ray on the shelf.

 

[Noshtero]

I'll be honest. My $3,000 bass was almost purely for the artistry. Paying for a $3,000 bass that looks almost identical to a $300 Squire is something I would never do. Call me shallow, but I want my $3,000 bass to look like it cost $3,000. Now after owning my $3,000 bass as my primary for years, I can without a doubt say that it plays better than any midrange bass I've ever owned.........But I pulled the trigger because it was pretty.

 

[Bassdirty]

A tool is only as good as its user
Chet Atkins was playing his guitar when a woman approached him. She said, "That guitar sounds beautiful". Chet immediately quit playing. Staring her in the eyes he asked, "How does it sound now?"

And she said?....

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Let's see. Been doing this for well over 5 decades. And a lot of time spent nickel and diming to get better and better equipt., including basses throughout all those years. Seemed it was important to raise a family, make mortgage, insurance, and car payments. But I used to always check out exotic stuff and dream.

Now I'm retired, and pride myself in some joy of having good equipment and basses, I'm in love with. So it gives me more pleasure. Since you can't take it with you, I've chosen to have some truly great basses, and a pretty good set up to play it into. I still have to stay in the realm of affordability for me; it's just that ceiling has risen over the years. Keep on smiling.....

 

[bucephylus]

Interesting that you cite acoustic basses. As one who plays acoustic guitar and has a collection of both acoustic and electric guitars, there is little comparison between the two types of standard 6 string guitars. Being a former symphony player I am familiar with upright basses, though never played one outside of college. The acoustic instrument is not dependent on electrics and thus must create it's own tone without the benefit of pickups or electronic equalization.

I've also had a lot of experience modding electric guitars, which in my mind brought up the subject. I've modded a lot of Strats, from Squiers to (my own) MIA Deluxe as well as cheap Chibson Les Pauls comparing to my numbered, limited edition Gibson Les Paul. And you know what? There isn't all that much difference if the guitar has the right "bones" to be upgraded. In fact, my Chibson played so well and sounded so good that I ended up selling the Gibson as it would never be gigged.The result being, with pickups, wires and proper setup there wasn't all that much difference between my cheapest and most expensive electrics...

And I was simply wondering if there was something in more expensive basses that might be different than electric guitars. One thing I noticed in general was that the strings on a bass affect the sound significantly more than they do on electric guitars. To be honest I've not been able to play a lot of "better" basses. The ones in the store tend to be higher end Fenders, and to be honest, I wouldn't trade my upgraded MIM for any of them. I wish there were more higher end basses available to try near me. So, I was just asking for folks who own better basses why they chose what they chose.

Fair enough. I too play non pedigree instruments - a couple of “Fender” parts basses - that easily hold their own with much higher priced instruments. The “big secret” is Roger Sadowsky’s preamp, which he purposely offers for “low cost” retrofit.

Still, nothing quite sounds like an Alembic Series I / II; and if you ever get the chance, they are worth the experience.

For doing your standard bar gigs, you don’t need to set yourself apart. Pro players have a whole different set of needs going on. To be sure, keenly interested hobby players also aspire to “better” gear; and that’s cool too.

Guess the saying about fine wines kind of applies: if you have to ask, then it’s probably not for you. Which is NOT to be taken as a slight.

In any case, the player is ALWAYS the most important factor. Passion (and investment) in the tools is just a much lesser, but still interesting thing.

 

[Bassdirty]

Cheap basses sound fine. I gigged a friend's Squier Affinity P Bass for a set a few weeks ago, just for a laugh. It sounded as much like a P Bass as any other P Bass. The neck felt fine, everything played fine, and no one in the audience noticed or cared that it was a cheap bass.



What is a better sound? I don't think tone is quantitative. I've never picked up a Squier or other equivalent beginner bass and thought it sounded bad. They don't always play great, but even that is uncommon in low end instruments these days as Asian factories are continuing to perfect automation and machining.



After $1500-$2000 you are dealing with diminishing returns for your cost. I'd say that unless you are looking for the inherent sound of something like an Alembic, you aren't going to see much difference from $2000 to $10,000 in terms of a P Bass. Hell, like I said before, the Squier Affinity P I just gigged sounded a lot like any other P Bass.

So why spend $1500 instead of $150? Options and QC. A higher end bass is LESS likely to have manufacturing defects. It's also likely to ship with a good set up, level frets with nice ends, and options for more exotic woods that look prettier. I buy basses because I like them, not because of that the sticker price is or whatever marketing drivel is written about them. If you pick something up, connect with it, and can afford it - buy it. Don't sweat the other details.

I like this answer. ^^^

 

[CallMeAl]

What a firestorm. Sorry I asked.

Couldn’t be that bad, 10 pages of discussion and plenty of earnest replies in there