What do you consider alcoholism to be ? I would define it as a Physical or Psychological dependence on alcohol.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
What do you consider alcoholism to be ?
- Thread starter MAJOR METAL
- Start date
Chemically its the same as any drug. And some people respond to it more intensly. If you are asking if alcoholism is a disease, I'd say so. If you take the physical response to alcohol as a variable and the fact that some people are pre-disposed to addictive behavior, you can have a very powerful connection and dependence.
There is some thought that since alcohol is still accepted by society that it may be more difficult for an alcoholic to quit drinking as it is to kick a hard drug habit. At least that's what I've been told by people who work with alcoholics.
There is some thought that since alcohol is still accepted by society that it may be more difficult for an alcoholic to quit drinking as it is to kick a hard drug habit. At least that's what I've been told by people who work with alcoholics.
I would say that when you wake up, if the first inclination is that you have to have a drink, you're probably an alcoholic.
But yeah, its a disease. Theres a lot of scientific evidence to back that up. Alcoholics metabolise alcohol differently.
But yeah, its a disease. Theres a lot of scientific evidence to back that up. Alcoholics metabolise alcohol differently.
I wouldn't characterize it as a "disease" as it has become so fashionable to do of late. I think that is an insult to those who have a REAL disease. You can merely exercise willpower to overcome the mental, and even physical addiction of Alcohol - it amounts to simply NOT PUTTING ALCOHOL IN YOUR MOUTH.
I have a severe for of crippling Arthritis. There is nothing I can abstain from, refrain from, and behaviorily modify in order to stem the progression of my disease. If I could stop eating or drinking something, and makes myself better, I would. To characterize something that you essential HAVE the power to eliminate from your life as a disease, is a great disservice to those who have real diseases, and have ZERO choice in the matter.
I have a severe for of crippling Arthritis. There is nothing I can abstain from, refrain from, and behaviorily modify in order to stem the progression of my disease. If I could stop eating or drinking something, and makes myself better, I would. To characterize something that you essential HAVE the power to eliminate from your life as a disease, is a great disservice to those who have real diseases, and have ZERO choice in the matter.
That sir, is a genetic pre-disposition, as you yourself have suggested. It is NOT a disease.
Something tells me that if you consumed ANYTHING every day, to excess, you might metabolize it a wee tad differently than the rest of us.
That does not make it a disease.
Alcoholism is the point when you can't live with alcohol and you can't live without it.
Referring to the condition as a disease helps many alcoholics recover - for that reason alone, it's OK in my book to call it a disease.
Referring to the condition as a disease helps many alcoholics recover - for that reason alone, it's OK in my book to call it a disease.
Basshole your understanding of addiction is fundamentally lacking.
Addicts don't "just quit". If they did, they wouldn't be addicts. Its easy to say, oh they should just quit. But its not that simple. Addiction has a profound effect on people. Addiciton permantly changes physiology.
Addicts don't "just quit". If they did, they wouldn't be addicts. Its easy to say, oh they should just quit. But its not that simple. Addiction has a profound effect on people. Addiciton permantly changes physiology.
Alcoholism is the condition resulting from the abuse of alcohol for the purpose of escaping reality. Numbing the pain. Calming down. Blocking out. Forgetting. Denying. Dying.
I didn't say it was easy. I didn't say all can do it...but clearly, for some, merely NOT DRINKING is possible, and they GET BETTER.
If I could do something as simple as take the fricken bottle out of my mouth, and walk without excruciating pain again, or play without pain again, then I would. The fact is, they have a choice, and I do not. To characterize it as a disease is an insult to those of us who don't have this option.
IMHO Alchoholism is not a disease, but a symptom. As Basshole suggested, you can stop the effects of alcohol by not consuming it whereas other "diseases" you just can't stop like arthritis or leprosy.
I don't think classifying things as diseases helps anyone. They just think "I have a disease" and they treat the "disease" instead of treating the problem--which is usually depression or anxiety or both.
I was married to an alcoholic, and alcoholism ran in his family--but I should say that anxiety ran in his family because every single one of his family members that drank had anxiety and drank because of that. He drank so much that the neighbors knew he was an alcoholic because there were so many beer cartons at the end of our driveway each week (our garbage system was strict, absolutely no recyclables in the trash bags). He'd drink about 8 beers a night and fall asleep on the couch. He didn't exhibit any of the "alcoholic" traits like yelling, violence, forgetfulness, etc. But I think buying a 12-pack every other day is "alcoholism." And when you're rotating where you buy it every day so the liquor store cashiers don't think you have a problem--well then it IS a problem.
I don't think classifying things as diseases helps anyone. They just think "I have a disease" and they treat the "disease" instead of treating the problem--which is usually depression or anxiety or both.
I was married to an alcoholic, and alcoholism ran in his family--but I should say that anxiety ran in his family because every single one of his family members that drank had anxiety and drank because of that. He drank so much that the neighbors knew he was an alcoholic because there were so many beer cartons at the end of our driveway each week (our garbage system was strict, absolutely no recyclables in the trash bags). He'd drink about 8 beers a night and fall asleep on the couch. He didn't exhibit any of the "alcoholic" traits like yelling, violence, forgetfulness, etc. But I think buying a 12-pack every other day is "alcoholism." And when you're rotating where you buy it every day so the liquor store cashiers don't think you have a problem--well then it IS a problem.
I understand why it's referred to as a disease. I also understand why some feel there's a distinction that should be made. I believe most who use the word "disease" to describe it do so because alcoholism grips the alcoholic in a disease-like way that they can't shake. Like a cureless disease.
Similar to being plagued with something other than the plague.
Similar to being plagued with something other than the plague.
Alcoholism is a weakness of character. Alcoholism is a chemical dependency, NOT a disease. It is an onset condition, caused by external circumstances, just like obesity and tinnitus-related deafness. It is caused by the actions of the individual. The individual cannot control his drinking, and his body becomes either immune to the effects of alcohol in minor quantities, forcing the drinker to drink more to catch the buzz; or the body slowly develops an addiction, the same as smoking or heroin or cocaine or pot. The body craves the chemical in the body because its so used to having it in the system.
People who become alcoholics have a weakness of character, where they need alcohol. Whether its from partying, drowning away pain, drowning away sorrow, or emotional stress, it's still NOT a disease. It is a weakness of the person's being, his flawed character, his poor self-control. The same as a fatass eating all day and getting to 1200 lbs, and ending up on Maury Povich. If that guy wasn't such a coward and a weak-spirited fool, he never would have got where he was. Same for drunks and alcoholics.
People who become alcoholics have a weakness of character, where they need alcohol. Whether its from partying, drowning away pain, drowning away sorrow, or emotional stress, it's still NOT a disease. It is a weakness of the person's being, his flawed character, his poor self-control. The same as a fatass eating all day and getting to 1200 lbs, and ending up on Maury Povich. If that guy wasn't such a coward and a weak-spirited fool, he never would have got where he was. Same for drunks and alcoholics.
I am not wanting to sound like I have a staunch conviction of others who drink, so please do not interpret this as that. As someone who does not drink myself and goes to a college where 8/10 students do drink, I see some crazy stuff go on.
Personally, the term alcoholism should not be used lightly, but I will not hesitate to think poorly of someone who exhibits the need to drink (not necessarily just from an addiction aspect) as their only key to a social life and fun. I see countless college students just waiting for the weekend or a night during the week when they can drink, not caring about much else and certainly not about classes. Alcoholism is just like other addictions, and is serious, but it also contains ramifications that most youths fail to realize. Drinking as a social lubricant and a social necessary (for entertainment or other purposes) should be regarded as a very big distinction.
Personally, the term alcoholism should not be used lightly, but I will not hesitate to think poorly of someone who exhibits the need to drink (not necessarily just from an addiction aspect) as their only key to a social life and fun. I see countless college students just waiting for the weekend or a night during the week when they can drink, not caring about much else and certainly not about classes. Alcoholism is just like other addictions, and is serious, but it also contains ramifications that most youths fail to realize. Drinking as a social lubricant and a social necessary (for entertainment or other purposes) should be regarded as a very big distinction.
As a recovering alcoholic I could give a rip how you "classify" my affliction... simple fact is it is MY affliction and I have to deal with it. With twenty years of sobriety behind me I can assure you that it is NOT as simple as pulling the fricken bottle from my lips!
Basshole, please feel free to belittle my addictions based soley on your being insulted by a classification. If it helps you feel better about your condition(s) then I am certainly all for it.
I would suggest though, that perhaps concentrating positively on your problems would be more rewarding than being negative about something as absurd as the classification of alcoholism experienced by others.
Basshole, please feel free to belittle my addictions based soley on your being insulted by a classification. If it helps you feel better about your condition(s) then I am certainly all for it.
I would suggest though, that perhaps concentrating positively on your problems would be more rewarding than being negative about something as absurd as the classification of alcoholism experienced by others.
Drinking to the point that you adversely affect your life and the lives of those around you.
My ex was/still is an alcoholic. Made my life a living he11 when he was drunk. It cost him two jobs, three vehicles, 34 broken bones, jail time, and his marriage and family.
The man still can't maintain a relationship. Soon as he gets comfortable with a woman, he starts drinking like he really does, instead of the lower levels he maintains while he woos a female. POOF! She disappears. He has loads of issues he won't address...he just "drinks over them".
He's a real jerk when he's drunk. He won't follow the advice of his counsellor, he won't listen to anyone. So...I guess he'll be alone. Its really sad. He's a wonderful man when he's not drunk, but within an hour or two of getting home from work, he's toasted. The more he drinks, the meaner he is. Very sad.
Cherie
Ok, 2 things:
First off, like I said, you have a misconception about the way addictions work. Sure, if they stop drinking, or doing pills, or shooting smack, yes things improve, you're absolutely correct about that. The issue is getting to that point. For an addict, the substance they are addicted to is a fundamental part of their lives. Getting a fix is as important to an addict as eating is for someone who is not an addict. Any attempt to just quit cold turkey will end in failure, because of the excrutiating withdrawl symptoms as well as the severe depression and mood swings. Its not that they do not want to get clean, its that they cannot without treatment.
Secondly, you say that its insulting to say its a disease because they can treat it easily. I have a hereditary blood disease, hemochromatosis, which is a disorder that effects the amount of iron I absorb from food. Left unchecked, I would suffer from iron overload diseases. But I can mitigate the disease's effects by watching my iron intake and getting blood drawn on a somewhat regular basis. My blood disorder is not nearly as detrimental as your arthritis. I can mitigate the effects of hemochromatosis, while you can't. But by your reasoning, its not a disease because I can control the effects. Are you suggesting that hemochromatosis is in fact, not a disease?
soulgeezer
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2007
- 5,123
- 2
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Red Zone Effects
In re ImaStupidBaby and TallLankyBastyd:
Both of you are making the assumption that addiction is equivalent to disease. Basshole and others are arguing that chemical dependence (addiction) is not the same as having a disease. Therefore, when you argue that alchoholism is a disease because it is an addiction, you are making an argument based on a false assumption.
Maybe the real question should be:
Do you believe that addictions are diseases?
Both of you are making the assumption that addiction is equivalent to disease. Basshole and others are arguing that chemical dependence (addiction) is not the same as having a disease. Therefore, when you argue that alchoholism is a disease because it is an addiction, you are making an argument based on a false assumption.
Maybe the real question should be:
Do you believe that addictions are diseases?
