What do you consider alcoholism to be ?

[scottice]

Drinking a 6 pack after work, alone at home, every night.

 

[Basshole]

When people say alcoholism is a "disease", they don't mean it as a disease like something caused by a virus or an immune system deficiency. It's a mental illness, just like depression.

CORRECT. Illness, condition...I'm fine with those words.

Disease? Nah. Easy to beat? Never said that.

 

[Marlat]

What is the difference between alcoholism and alcohol abuse?

Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects (4).

Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependence (4).

The US Centre for Disease Control classifies alcoholism as a disease. With all due respect to those arguing, I would tend to believe their analysis of the situation over yours.

Source: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And for the record I am enjoying a beer as I type this!

 

[Bad Brains]

Drinking a 6 pack after work, alone at home, every night.

Hey I do that all the time.

 

[Basshole]

The US Centre for Disease Control classifies alcoholism as a disease. With all due respect to those arguing, I would tend to believe their analysis of the situation over yours.

Source: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And for the record I am enjoying a beer as I type this!

By THAT definition, then we should by all means stop putting drug addicts in prison...since all they are guilty of is having "disease". How cruel of us to treat one "disease" [sic] (alcoholism), and incarcerate unfortunate sufferers of opiate addiction as criminals.

Particularly poigniant since you cite a government reference, don't you think?

 

[Bad Brains]

CORRECT. Illness, condition...I'm fine with those words.

Disease? Nah. Easy to beat? Never said that.

Well, I wouldn't say illness, more like a mental-illness. I wouldn't call it a disease either. Just addiction, and alcoholism is addiction.

Alcoholism is the same thing as being addicted to cocaine, herion, meth. And no one says those people are diseased.

I'm just pointing out when people do say alcoholism is a disease, they really mean it's a condition related to addiction. They don't mean it's a disease in a medical sense.

The guess the real argument here is wether or not addiction is classified as a "disease". Once we figure that quesiton out, this argument becomes solved.

Here is the definition for disease. One could make an argument that addiction could classify, but one could also make an argument that it doesn't.

dis·ease /dɪˈziz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-zeez] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -eased, -eas·ing.
–noun 1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
–verb (used with object) 5. to affect with disease; make ill.

 

[scottice]

Hey I do that all the time.

hehe... then you're an Alcoholic.

 

[jomahu]

anyone seen that episode of Penn and Teller BS where they talk about 12-step programs? interesting fodder, in a grain-of-salt way.

i don't think addiction is a disease. however, an addiction is an addiction. whether it's better or worse, i dunno. all i know is that is sucks being addicted to a particular substance, especially one that will kill over time.

 

[disenchant]

Point of order:

Many posters have stated that people have genetic predisposition to alcoholism as if it is a stone cold fact. Is this the case? Are there studies supporting this position?

The mere fact that something runs in families is not sufficient evidence of genetic predisposition. It is just as likely that such behaviors are learned from the environment as encoded in one's genes.

We have many people in family named "John." Does that mean my family is genetically predisposed to the name "John"?

I don’t think the medical industry has solid evidence either way. What makes sense is that certain people have a genetic disposition toward something, and if the environment is just so, it can bring it out.

I’m adopted and yet I have my mother's allergies to the SAME THINGS, I have my dad's acid reflux and my mom's heart condition. Figure that one out!

 

[Marlat]

By THAT definition, then we should by all means stop putting drug addicts in prison...since all they are guilty of is having "disease". How cruel of us to treat one "disease" [sic] (alcoholism), and incarcerate unfortunate sufferers of opiate addiction as criminals.

Particularly poigniant since you cite a government reference, don't you think?

I would imagine that that is not the official definition, but merely characteristics to which are symptoms of alcoholism, which they classfiy as a disease. The relevant part is that they classify it as a disease. Now, if you are prepared to cite medical sources of authority that disagree with that position then its one thing. However, you are only offering your opinion and on what basis should we assign any authority to it?

You can apply all the inductive logic to the CDC's statement that you like to try and prove its absurd, but you are attacking a FAQ and not the statement of recognition as a disease itself.

 

[Basshole]

I would imagine that that is not the official definition, but merely characteristics to which are symptoms of alcoholism, which they classfiy as a disease. The relevant part is that they classify it as a disease. Now, if you are prepared to cite medical sources of authority that disagree with that position then its one thing. However, you are only offering your opinion and on what basis should we assign any authority to it?

You can apply all the inductive logic to the CDC's statement that you like to try and prove its absurd, but you are attacking a FAQ and not the statement of recognition as a disease itself.

By the same logic that they assign alcohol addiction the moniker of "disease", they should do the same with ALL chemical addictions. To do so with only one is hypocritical, and discriminatory. To incarcerate someone for having a "disease" is simply unconscionable.



Wanna call it a disease? FINE...but ya better give ALL THE OTHER ADDICTS, who are just suffering from a "disease" the same rights and considerations...and TREAT THEM, not incarcerate them.

 

[Bad Brains]

hehe... then you're an Alcoholic.

Nahh, I just like my booze while I'm working on stuff.

I never got the whole "you're not suppose to drink alone" rule. Who said this?

I prefer to drink alone most of the time. More relaxing.

 

[Bad Brains]

anyone seen that episode of Penn and Teller BS where they talk about 12-step programs? interesting fodder, in a grain-of-salt way.

No, but that show ruled, so I will have to check it out.

 

[Bad Brains]

By THAT definition, then we should by all means stop putting drug addicts in prison...since all they are guilty of is having "disease". How cruel of us to treat one "disease" [sic] (alcoholism), and incarcerate unfortunate sufferers of opiate addiction as criminals.

Putting drug addicts in prison IS cruel. And it also solves nothing.

Drug addicts aren't criminals.

 

[Basshole]

Putting drug addicts in prison IS cruel. And it also solves nothing.

Drug addicts aren't criminals.

Agree 100%

 

[Marlat]

By the same logic that they assign alcohol addiction the moniker of "disease", they should do the same with ALL chemical addictions. To do so with only one is hypocritical, and discriminatory. To incarcerate someone for having a "disease" is simply unconscionable.



Wanna call it a disease? FINE...but ya better give ALL THE OTHER ADDICTS, who are just suffering from a "disease" the same rights and considerations...and TREAT THEM, not incarcerate them.

That's a straw man argument and doesn't address the issue at hand. Further research on google has revealed that there is largely consensus within the medical community that alcoholism is a disease and that disagreement with this generally only exists outside the medical community.

BTW you are applying the term "definition" to a FAQ which is faulty logic in itself. You are assuming that what is said there is the definition which leads alcoholism to be classfied as a disease rather than a description of symptoms. I thought you might want to be made aware of that since you are so worried about logic.

But fine, if you don't want to deal with the issues feel free to through up your straw man arguments. Remeber, the CDC is not "obliged" to do anything - as I have already stated - you can apply all the "logic" you want to the statement - the reality is they classify it as a disease and you haven't put up any medical evidence that contradicts it - just your opinion - and you know what they say about opinions.

Now let me enjoy my beer in peace.

 

[Jeremy Crockett]

Putting drug addicts in prison IS cruel. And it also solves nothing.

Drug addicts aren't criminals.

If they're stealing to support their habits, they are.

 

[txbasschik]

Definition of disease:
a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

Poisons. BAM! Disease. Affecting an organ. Liver. BAM!


txbasschik, your definition is flawed due to the fact that functioning alcoholics exist. They hold jobs, can be sucessful, no real issues aside from a chemical depedency to alchohol. Though this is rare, it still happens.

My entire family is alchoholics, essentially. Father, mother, grandparents, everyone. With that in mind, I am going to have a difference of opinion than someone who either:
1) Doesn't have any direct contact with alcoholics, or
2) Doesn't have...an unbreakable relation. It's not like you're dating a drunk, whereas you can just ditch them and never deal, they are my family, which I kinda can't get rid of.
I've seen my father attempt to quit cold turkey...not pretty. The shaking of the hands was hard to see, the mood swings weren't fun either, but when he had a seizure in my basement...that was the worst.

The point is, just "taking the bottle away from your lips" isn't exactly enough. Just quitting isn't an option after a certain point.
Alcholism does not begin as a disease. It is a habit, which evolves into a chemical depedecy, and eventually a disease, IMO. Once it reaches the second stage, it falls under Basshole's own classification of them having "ZERO choice in the matter." Actual treatment from medical professionals is key in sucessfully recovering, much like other diseases.

And I was actually waiting for a Mitch Hedberg reference in this thread.

My ex is a functioning alcoholic. I know a number of people who are functioning alcoholics themselves, or I know their wives, or their children. I do know that "just quitting" isn't an option, after a time. Still and all, the alcoholic must *want* to be treated, and must *want* to stay on the treatment for as long as it takes. A very difficult thing, over time, to maintain.

Whether they keep their job, never engage in domestic abuse, never get a DWI, etc...their alcoholism *does* adversely affect the functioning alcoholic and his/her family.

Its not an unbreakable relation for me, either. He's still my son's father. Sometimes he'll talk to me. Other times, he won't. But his drinking definitely affects my son's life negatively, and has all of my son's life. It affects my life adversely because I can't depend on him to be a parent, or communicate. I'm not judging him, truly. Its just the hard truth, and I've had to learn to not rely on him too much.

I never said alcoholism wasn't a disease, or rather, as you say, can become a disease. I totally agree with you on that. My definition actually had functioning alcoholics in mind. When one says "alcoholic", many people envision a bum-looking person who can't keep it together at all. But most of the alcoholics in my family and my experience have "functioned". At least, they functioned outside the home. In the home, it was very, very hard to live with them. Either because they'd get mean, or lazy, but most often because they just "weren't there". They were too wasted. Not sloppy-like, but...passed out, or they would never remember what happened the night before. Or just too zoned to interact with.

I finally left my ex when, in a drunken rage because I was *reading a book*, he threatened to kill me. Got the gun out, loaded it, held it to my head, and then told me, "Not tonight. Maybe tomorrow." He didn't remember one bit of it the next day. Was shocked when I told him what he'd done. I am glad he wasn't reminded of it by finding my dead body.

He just didn't want to get any help. I stayed as long as I could, trying to get him to see a doctor, praying every night that he would. He did try to quit, once, cold turkey. The tremors, the mood swings...they were awful. But he got through them. He had quit for three weeks. He just couldn't avoid the craving, and he wouldn't see a doctor. Bam. Drunk again.

He did see a doc for a later girlfriend, but he wouldn't do what the doc said. Same for the program she got him into.

He does better by himself, really. Most of his issues stem from childhood abuse and abandonment by the women in his family. He drinks less with no woman around. But he's still a functioning, untreated alcoholic. It just makes me really sad.

Cherie

 

[Basshole]

Now let me enjoy my beer in peace.

Why should you be allowed to have your beer in peace, when some poor opiate addict, who clearly just has a "disease" is incarcerated?

 

[Basshole]

If they're stealing to support their habits, they are.

Right. That's another issue entirely.

An alcoholic that steals to buy Thunderbird is also a criminal.