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What do you consider alcoholism to be ?

#82
soulgeezer said:
Mark, in earlier editions of the DSM (prior to DSM IV), homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder and, by extension, a "disease." You may want to be careful quoting it.

Just sayin'...
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Yeah...and the other little details that Mark seems to overlook are:

CDC? Government agency. The same government that apparently chooses to characterize one addiction as a disease, and another as a crime? - clearly this contradiction indicates that they can't be trusted, and that other political factors are at play.

Medical Community? They are too busy taking money from the drug companies. Their conflict of interest is well documented.

Wikipedia?

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#83
soulgeezer said:
Point of order:

Many posters have stated that people have genetic predisposition to alcoholism as if it is a stone cold fact. Is this the case? Are there studies supporting this position?

The mere fact that something runs in families is not sufficient evidence of genetic predisposition. It is just as likely that such behaviors are learned from the environment as encoded in one's genes.

We have many people in family named "John." Does that mean my family is genetically predisposed to the name "John"?
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Yes, there are studies supporting the genetic basis of alcoholism.
 
#86
soulgeezer said:
Mark, in earlier editions of the DSM (prior to DSM IV), homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder and, by extension, a "disease." You may want to be careful quoting it.

Just sayin'...
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Actually, I'd be hesitant to say it classified homosexuality as a disease. The DSM isn't necessarily only for diseases, it is more of a catalogue of abnormal behaviors, ie, behaviors that are outside the norm. Homosexuality, generally speaking, is rare. Most people are in fact, heterosexual. A foot fetish is still in the DSM-IV, even though its not a disease or a mental illness.

The DSM is not so much a manual of diseases as it is a catalogue of abnormal psychology.
 
#88
Basshole said:
Yeah...and the other little details that Mark seems to overlook are:

CDC? Government agency. The same government that apparently chooses to characterize one addiction as a disease, and another as a crime? - clearly this contradiction indicates that they can't be trusted, and that other political factors are at play.

Medical Community? They are too busy taking money from the drug companies. Their conflict of interest is well documented.

Wikipedia?

crackup.gif
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So far its Wikipedia 1, you 0. Laugh it up - you may as well join the chorus of people laughing at you ;)
 
#90
Basshole said:
I wouldn't characterize it as a "disease" as it has become so fashionable to do of late. I think that is an insult to those who have a REAL disease. You can merely exercise willpower to overcome the mental, and even physical addiction of Alcohol - it amounts to simply NOT PUTTING ALCOHOL IN YOUR MOUTH.

I have a severe for of crippling Arthritis. There is nothing I can abstain from, refrain from, and behaviorily modify in order to stem the progression of my disease. If I could stop eating or drinking something, and makes myself better, I would. To characterize something that you essential HAVE the power to eliminate from your life as a disease, is a great disservice to those who have real diseases, and have ZERO choice in the matter.
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Then cold is not a disease either because you can overcome it... Anything that you can treat is not a disease?


Eh he probably still has me on ignore...
 
#95
Basshole said:
You're no longer on ignore, but I must be. I've already addressed this question.
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Woohoo, *hug*

Nah, i just made a mistake of responding to what you said with out pushing "post" then i came back later and just pressed it... So originally I wrote that before you addressed it, just posted it after only then looked at it, but still wanted to see if i am still ignored... What other way to see it then to annoy someone... :)

It's what i get for having 4 TB windows open at once... :)
 
#96
Mark Latimour said:
Hey chuckles....more medical evidence. BTW what was your evidence or credentials again? I think I may have missed where you posted them.

Source: Invalid Link Removed

As I said...by all means put up your piffy little comments and straw man arguments. Who knows, it may actually distract some people from the fact that you have nothing of substance to say on the actual issue being discussed. Then again, we could tell that already couldn't we? ;)
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Mark, from that same article, the next two paragraphs:

Despite the numerous studies validating the disease model of alcoholism, controversy still exists. In his 1989 book, Diseasing of America, social psychologist Stanton Peele, Ph.D., argues that AA and for-profit alcohol treatment centers promote the "myth" of alcoholism as a lifelong disease. He contends that the disease concept "excuses alcoholics for their past, present, and future irresponsibility" and points out that most people can overcome addiction on their own. He concludes that the only effective response to alcoholism and other addictions is "to recreate living communities that nurture the human capacity to lead constructive lives."

Surprisingly, Dr. Peele’s view that alcoholism is a personal conduct problem, rather than a disease, seems to be more prevalent among medical practitioners than among the public. A recent Gallop poll found that almost 90 percent of Americans believe that alcoholism is a disease. In contrast, physicians’ views of alcoholism were reviewed at an August 1997 conference held by the International Doctors of Alcoholics Anonymous (IDAA). A survey of physicians reported at that conference found that 80 percent of responding doctors perceived alcoholism as simply bad behavior.
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It seems that your vaunted concensus is among the public, not physicians (in direct contradiction to the claim you made earlier in this thread). Fully 80% of doctors beleive that alcoholism is not a disease, but rather a behavioral disorder.
 
#97
Basshole said:
Actually, there seems to be a rather large number of folks agreeing with me here...is that beer clouding your mind?
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No, apparently just my vision as I haven't seen any medical evidence posted that seems to validate your view. Many people may agree with you, many people thought the earth was flat, it doesn't make it so. I'll trust those with professional credentials in the area. You trust whoever you like, but until you can post something that indicates otherwise your posts arn't worth very much IMO.
 
#98
Mark Latimour said:
No, apparently just my vision as I haven't seen any medical evidence posted that seems to validate your view. Many people may agree with you, many people thought the earth was flat, it doesn't make it so. I'll trust those with professional credentials in the area. You trust whoever you like, but until you can post something that indicates otherwise your posts arn't worth very much IMO.
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Mark, I would counter that YOUR posts are just fricken BRILLIANT, however. :rolleyes: The issue of alcoholism being termed a disease is FAR from being a "consensus", I don't care what you OR Wikipedia says (still laughing at THAT one).

It would appear to be more a matter of "semantics", not science, as you would suggest...and since lexicon is determined by USAGE, and a great number of people seem to agree with me (no matter ho stupid you may think we all are), I would say that you're on the losing end of this one, bucko.

:spit:
 
#99
soulgeezer said:
Mark, from that same article, the next two paragraphs:



It seems that your vaunted concensus is among the public, not physicians (in direct contradiction to the claim you made earlier in this thread). Fully 80% of doctors beleive that alcoholism is not a disease, but rather a behavioral disorder.
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The article was published in 1998, so its survey data, taken presumably in 97/98 is now out of date. However the historical facts about what those parts of the medical profession dealing with alcoholism are what is relevant. Further, as I am sure you are aware, the conculsion of the article rebukes the consensus found in that study and dismisses it as a problem of a lack of education among general medical practitioners (as opposed to those who specialise in the field). However, in order to rebuke the claim that the medical profession doens't generally agree you would need to show up to date survey data as that survey is now 10 years old.
 

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