• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

What does "bad tone" sound like?

Music is not physics.
We shouldn't be constantly under the influence of music like we are of gravity, heat, motion.

Yes, we can turn sheet music into something that's like the recharge calculation of a Toyota Prius under braking for minimum recharge given min burn rate of the battery.

Go dance to that.

But we need to not have a totally discharged hybrid car, I'm not going to watch girls dance for dollars to that particular music.
While I hear what you're saying, even though you made it difficult :D it's a disservice to say that reading sheet music will make you sound like the Prius doing whatever the hell you said it does. People on the fence about reading music will interpret that as you saying that reading sheet music on a gig will make your playing sound sterile, even if that wasn't your intent.

If anyone doesn't like the way Jeff Berlin played with ABWH, it's because they don't like the way Jeff plays, not because he was reading music. Years ago I saw The Dixie Dregs when Jordan Rudess took over the keyboard duties from T. Lavitz, who had to drop out of the tour suddenly, and I believe Dave LaRue told me it was his second show with them, and he read the entire show and crushed it, both in execution and feel. And not to brag, but while I prefer not reading music onstage, there are gigs I do where it's an absolute necessity, and it's extremely rare that I don't crush the gig and have a good feel, too. I've worked with plenty of musicians who have, too. It's all about having an affinity and a respect for the music you're playing. Jeff likes Yes, but rock isn't his wheelhouse and he has been somewhat critical in the past of Chris Squire's inability to improvise (like it matters with Yes), and it shows. I thought he did a good job, especially with the short notice he had, but he got the call because he and Bruford are friends and he was the best option at the time, and I totally preferred Tony with them.
 
Last edited:
If your tone sounds like the high pitched squealing of two skunks in an alley fighting over territory,
That's bad.
If your tone sounds like Sade, in a low mesmorizing voice, beckoning you to come to bed,
That's good.

Next question.....

Skunk.jpg
Sade.jpg
 
It's all personal taste of course, and I'll undoubtedly get flamed and earn my way onto even more ignore lists for this, but....

The present-day Larry Graham thwacking away on his Moon bass is the epitome of bad tone. Overbearing and obnoxious.
The old Larry Graham of the late 60's with Sly, was the epitome of awesome. Powerful and ground breaking.

Jaco running around on stage soloing, trying desperately to hold the audience's attention until the actual music resumes, kinda sucked. Borderline embarrassing in retrospect.
Jaco's work with Joni Mitchell was as brilliant and inspiring as anything ever recorded. Goose bumps good.
This is spot on in my humble opinion. Especially Jaco with Joni.
 
I think the moral here is "learn to read if you want Yes to call you on a short notice gig."
:D

Perhaps... but I don't read and cover Yes just about as good as this guy........



and I'm not sure that he reads either, but the real moral is that if you are already in the business or have some awesome connections, you might get the Yes gig, but neither one of us would, and this guy above KILLS IT better than Berlin ever could. I know the video above is recent but I'm sure he knew those tunes even back in 1989. I did, and still do.
 
Perhaps... but I don't read and cover Yes just about as good as this guy........



and I'm not sure that he reads either, but the real moral is that if you are already in the business or have some awesome connections, you might get the Yes gig, but neither one of us would, and this guy above KILLS IT better than Berlin ever could. I know the video above is recent but I'm sure he knew those tunes even back in 1989. I did, and still do.

Yeah, but do you know all the new stuff you'd have to know to cop that gig, too? All of it? Even that one song you hate but Steve Howe loves and insists on doing? :D
 
I personally like a bit of fret buzz and clank in my tone, but if the clank overpowers the actual note you're playing, that's bad tone (you can hardly call it tone, to be honest). I also personally dislike muddy and/or booming bass tones except for in a song or band that really calls for it. For example Paul Gray, formerly of Slipknot (RIP) had a horrible tone in my opinion, when played solo. But in the mix it sounded absolutely perfect. People have mentioned Fieldy several times in this thread, and while it definitely works for Korn, and while I actually somewhat like Korn, I must agree that his "tone" is abhorrent.

As for the many people ITT who keep parroting "It's subjective" and saying nothing else:
Yes, this question is subjective to the individual.
So, I'm asking what you personally consider to be "bad tone".
Sum a ya need to learn how to read ;)
 
Perhaps... but I don't read and cover Yes just about as good as this guy........



and I'm not sure that he reads either, but the real moral is that if you are already in the business or have some awesome connections, you might get the Yes gig, but neither one of us would, and this guy above KILLS IT better than Berlin ever could. I know the video above is recent but I'm sure he knew those tunes even back in 1989. I did, and still do.



I suppose this is why tone and playing is such a subjective thing, because I've listened to Jeff Berlin playing with Yes (or ABWH, if you will) and I thought they'd never sounded better. Better than when Chris Squire was in the chair, better than this guy's cover videos.

Anyway, bad tone to me is all fat, muddy 'bwomp'. Think Thunderbird, with the strings plucked by the neck. That 'elastic band over an ice cream tub' sound is awful.
 
Yeah, but do you know all the new stuff you'd have to know to cop that gig, too? All of it? Even that one song you hate but Steve Howe loves and insists on doing? :D

When it comes to Yes and Rush, I'm right there.... so, Yes, (no pun) I'd know it and would be 100% ready to play it.

The 15,000 in front of me?? Ok, that's a bit more than I ever played in front of....:laugh:
 
When it comes to Yes and Rush, I'm right there.... so, Yes, (no pun) I'd know it and would be 100% ready to play it.

The 15,000 in front of me?? Ok, that's a bit more than I ever played in front of....:laugh:
Well Yes doesn't do many gigs in front of 15,000 anymore. But they're still pretty big and doing 2000-3000 seat venues. Nothing to sneeze at.

Anyway, there are other gigs out there besides Yes, and many require reading, and most of those reading gigs pay pretty well, certainly better than your average bar gig. If that isn't what you're looking for, that's cool, but I don't know anyone who can read that regrets it.
 
Well Yes doesn't do many gigs in front of 15,000 anymore. But they're still pretty big and doing 2000-3000 seat venues. Nothing to sneeze at.

Anyway, there are other gigs out there besides Yes, and many require reading, and most of those reading gigs pay pretty well, certainly better than your average bar gig. If that isn't what you're looking for, that's cool, but I don't know anyone who can read that regrets it.
I can read music, having played trombone for years in middle and high school band.

While it's not a skill I use all that often these days, it's one I'm glad I have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimmyM