What does "bad tone" sound like?

[JimmyM]

I've heard bad sounds on really good songs, so I've come to the conclusion that it's all about context. For example, Geezer Butler has a hilarious story about trying to get a Chris Squire tone. He tried it at a Sabbath rehearsal, and Ozzy says to him, "What the ---- are you doing?" Meanwhile, Chris sounded awesome with Yes.

So context.

 

[JGbassman]

There is a lot to be said about context, and these days with isolated bass tracks, I'm pretty amazed on the amount of sloppiness, fudged notes, and weird tones that are in some of my favorite songs, they not only blend, but with some are integral to the song.

Geddy Lee backing SRV would be a sonic disaster, as would Jamerson covering korn's bass lines. While both players are killer and have signature bass tones, they would both be very out of context with those bands.

 

[Max Blasto]

There is no such thing as "bad" tone. No such thing as "good" tone.

Context is everything.

I've never wanted to sound like Robbie Shakespeare or Aston Barett but when I dial up a Geddy Lee sound for the music those dudes played I get a lot of dirty looks. Pull up some Family Man in a Rush cover band and you're fired.

There are some classic performances that can be improved though. Fieldy's sound as we know, is a sound many love to hate. People who love his sound generally have little pro experience outside that genre which is why they think it doesn't suck. Led Zep's JPJ is an iconic player who's tone was the least inspiring of the classic greats. Only when he brought up the 8-string did he have a singular "sound". Jack Bruce, on the other hand had a definitive sound that was completely unusable in any other band than Cream.

Jaco's voice was fine, but because he's an icon, people like to make themselves seem more sophisticated by pushing back against it. None of the people who hate his tone can play like that so it doesn't matter what they say really.

Another guy that gets hate here is Gene Simmons. I know why people diss Gene, but his tone on the early Kiss albums is classic American rock: Big Gibson bass through overdriven amp.

Stuff I don't like: again context defines, but a lot of classic rock bass recording are underserving the songs. Steve Fossen from Heart was a terrific player whose performances fit the songs, but the sound is pretty honky. Tom Hamilton's early work with Aerosmisth is pretty weak.

Steve Harris' tone after the first two Maiden albums was enough to make me give up on Metal.

 

[ThuzzleFump]

It's really dependent on taste and situation. Here's a bomb: Lemmy (One of my faves as a person and a player) has, by many standards a terrible tone. Not that much low end, clanky, distorted, harsh, gritty...and yet, in the context of Motorhead, it's froggin' genius. However, I don't think he'd be the first fill-in choice if, say, Chuck Rainey was booked. RIP Lemmy.

 

[Max Blasto]

I've heard bad sounds on really good songs, so I've come to the conclusion that it's all about context. For example, Geezer Butler has a hilarious story about trying to get a Chris Squire tone. He tried it at a Sabbath rehearsal, and Ozzy says to him, "What the ---- are you doing?" Meanwhile, Chris sounded awesome with Yes.

So context.

Yep.

Hole in the Sky. Geezer picked up Glenn Hughes' Rickenbacker and tried to make that work in the Sabbath context. Ozzy hated it.
I for one would have liked Geezer to push past and find a way to get that to work, but alas, Ozzy won. Crazy Train was recorded with a Gibson EB-3 and the Rick was done in hard rock.

 

[ThuzzleFump]

Yep.

Hole in the Sky. Geezer picked up Glenn Hughes' Rickenbacker and tried to make that work in the Sabbath context. Ozzy hated it.
I for one would have liked Geezer to push past and find a way to get that to work, but alas, Ozzy won. Crazy Train was recorded with a Gibson EB-3 and the Rick was done in hard rock.

I'll follow up by saying that there is actually a lot of pretty bad tone in hard rock. And it sounds AWESOME! Plus, per my previous post, I can think of one guy who had some success in hard rock with a Rick, and it was NOT Geddy.

 

[JimmyM]

I'll follow up by saying that there is actually a lot of pretty bad tone in hard rock. And it sounds AWESOME! Plus, per my previous post, I can think of one guy who had some success in hard rock with a Rick, and it was NOT Geddy.

True, but he also replaced the pickups in it before he got a model with pickups that he liked.

 

[jaybones]

Bad tone, how about a cat fart in a tin can.

Good tone, a lion's growl from a 55 gallon drum. Mastiff barks in a trash can.

 

[ThuzzleFump]

Bad tone, how about a cat fart in a tin can.

Good tone, a lion's growl from a 55 gallon drum. Mastiff barks in a trash can.

Cat fart in a tin can...bad tone and bad smell too. No thank you.

 

[Mark_70]

Too scooped.

Regards
Mark

 

[Iridescentone]

It's all personal taste of course, and I'll undoubtedly get flamed and earn my way onto even more ignore lists for this, but....

The present-day Larry Graham thwacking away on his Moon bass is the epitome of bad tone. Overbearing and obnoxious.
The old Larry Graham of the late 60's with Sly, was the epitome of awesome. Powerful and ground breaking.

Jaco running around on stage soloing, trying desperately to hold the audience's attention until the actual music resumes, kinda sucked. Borderline embarrassing in retrospect.
Jaco's work with Joni Mitchell was as brilliant and inspiring as anything ever recorded. Goose bumps good.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Quirky effects. I seriously hate this. I keep seeing avant-garde guys with so many auto-wahs, flangers, chorus effects, delays, and phasers layered over their 16th licks a proper, in-key pitch never sounds on the notes.

I will also say, I have mad respect for true jazz players and most have good tones. It's just a lot of the "new age, avant-garde" crowd gets too heady and weird. I'm all for experimental, but it's like poetry: When it strays too far away from the fundamental rules of the language your message gets lost.

THIS!!

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

I've heard bad sounds on really good songs, so I've come to the conclusion that it's all about context. For example, Geezer Butler has a hilarious story about trying to get a Chris Squire tone. He tried it at a Sabbath rehearsal, and Ozzy says to him, "What the ---- are you doing?" Meanwhile, Chris sounded awesome with Yes.

So context.

Best Geezer tone during the first Sabbath period? That of "Never Say Die" ... why? Advance in recording technology towards the end of the 70s ? More money for the studio? Better bass ? Better technique?

 

[Korladis]

Yep.

Hole in the Sky. Geezer picked up Glenn Hughes' Rickenbacker and tried to make that work in the Sabbath context. Ozzy hated it.
I for one would have liked Geezer to push past and find a way to get that to work, but alas, Ozzy won. Crazy Train was recorded with a Gibson EB-3 and the Rick was done in hard rock.

Rick was done in hard rock? You must be joking.

 

[Hi-End Basses]

Scooped.

All low end or all high end.

Overly clean.

The mids are essential to good tone.

 

[Korladis]

The mids are essential to good tone.

To me, they're what most of tone is.

 

[Max Blasto]

I'll follow up by saying that there is actually a lot of pretty bad tone in hard rock. And it sounds AWESOME! Plus, per my previous post, I can think of one guy who had some success in hard rock with a Rick, and it was NOT Geddy.

Oh sure In the 70s you can't name a relevent british band that _didn't_ use a Rick at some point. Ricks belong on in hard rock no question about it. If you're talkin' about Lemmy, well then, case in point.
But if that tone is good in Motorhead, fine but it don't work for Black Uhuru.

And that's the crux of the thread. Even guys that liked their 60s or 70s tone don't sound like that now given the opportunity to play modern instruments, amps and tech. Roger Glover (Deep Purple) is a good example: Made in Japan is classic, but he wouldn't be caught dead sounding like that now.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

There is no such thing as "bad" tone. No such thing as "good" tone.

Context is everything.

I've never wanted to sound like Robbie Shakespeare or Aston Barett but when I dial up a Geddy Lee sound for the music those dudes played I get a lot of dirty looks. Pull up some Family Man in a Rush cover band and you're fired.

There are some classic performances that can be improved though. Fieldy's sound as we know, is a sound many love to hate. People who love his sound generally have little pro experience outside that genre which is why they think it doesn't suck. Led Zep's JPJ is an iconic player who's tone was the least inspiring of the classic greats. Only when he brought up the 8-string did he have a singular "sound". Jack Bruce, on the other hand had a definitive sound that was completely unusable in any other band than Cream.

Jaco's voice was fine, but because he's an icon, people like to make themselves seem more sophisticated by pushing back against it. None of the people who hate his tone can play like that so it doesn't matter what they say really.

Another guy that gets hate here is Gene Simmons. I know why people diss Gene, but his tone on the early Kiss albums is classic American rock: Big Gibson bass through overdriven amp.

Stuff I don't like: again context defines, but a lot of classic rock bass recording are underserving the songs. Steve Fossen from Heart was a terrific player whose performances fit the songs, but the sound is pretty honky. Tom Hamilton's early work with Aerosmisth is pretty weak.

Steve Harris' tone after the first two Maiden albums was enough to make me give up on Metal.

Dear friend, I will take the jazz bass to be of John Paul Jones on Lemon Song 20 times against any tones from Geddy Lee in any of his recordings just to talk about the same bass.. JPJ finger picking and timing in that tune is pure RNB and funk with 16 notes which were precursor of what would come off the hands of our bipolar friend genius ... Jaco

 

[JimmyM]

Oh sure In the 70s you can't name a relevent british band that _didn't_ use a Rick at some point. Ricks belong on in hard rock no question about it. If you're talkin' about Lemmy, well then, case in point.
But if that tone is good in Motorhead, fine but it don't work for Black Uhuru.

Lemmy played in Black Uhuru?

And that's the crux of the thread. Even guys that liked their 60s or 70s tone don't sound like that now given the opportunity to play modern instruments, amps and tech. Roger Glover (Deep Purple) is a good example: Made in Japan is classic, but he wouldn't be caught dead sounding like that now.

Except that for Purple's most recent album, Roger used Bob Ezrin's old Precision for half the songs. Roger wanted to change the strings, and Bob Ezrin told him, "Don't touch the strings." Personally, I thought Roger sounded better on Made In Japan than he does with his Vigier.

 

[Korladis]

Dear friend, I will take the jazz bass to be of John Paul Jones on Lemon Song 20 times against any tones from Geddy Lee in any of his recordings just to talk about the same bass.. JPJ finger picking and timing in that tune is pure RNB and funk with 16 notes which were precursorsprecursor of what would come off the hands of our bipolar friend genius ... Jaco

And I'd take either of them over Jaco any day.