I find the best way to play is "your" way. I totally ignore others opinions as they are not bass players and not playing my bass. If you can't please yourself, by sounding as you want and playing the way you want, why play bass at all?
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What does it mean to be a pocket player?
- Thread starter JPBourdier
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I find the best way to play is "your" way. I totally ignore others opinions as they are not bass players and not playing my bass. If you can't please yourself, by sounding as you want and playing the way you want, why play bass at all?
To me "In the Pocket" means... Keep it simple, good timing with the Kick and not overplaying or wanking.......
Because playing for only yourself is the essence of failing to play for the song. Playing in the pocket is taking the song's groove seriously and thereby taking both it and the whole band to a higher plateau, allowing the soloists and vocals to really shine.
In The Pocket: Tasteful and appropriate control of note choices and values, dynamics, tempo, syncopation, and "locking in" these qualities with other musicians.
I disagree that this is only about the drummer and bassist. All rhythm-instrument players can also be pocket players.
I also feel "the pocket" applies to far more genres than funk and R&B.
I disagree that this is only about the drummer and bassist. All rhythm-instrument players can also be pocket players.
I also feel "the pocket" applies to far more genres than funk and R&B.
It's playing in such a way that you get asked back.
I play in a typical cover band. I'm not the best bass player in the world but I'd say I'm a pocket player. I get compliments all the time.......and all I'm doing is just covering the bass line and sticking the groove.
If there is an attitude involved, its confident leadership.
I refer to myself as a pocket player because I don't do any fancy "melody" type stuff. I groove my lines on the beat with the drums and put my fills in where I feel our songs need them. I leave the melodic stuff to the guitars and the vocals.
If YOU stop, EVERYBODY stops, the song falls apart and people stop dancing.
That's a pocket player.
That's a pocket player.
The whole pocket thing is so nebulous. Basically, if you can play appropriately within the context of tune, keeping time, and keeping the form then you're doing it. It has nothing to do with not playing melodically.
No offense, but I don't think that's it at all. Being in synch doesn't mean duplication.
The term has multiple meanings, but one of them is that the 'pocket' refers to the difference between one part playing straight time and another being behind the beat. The bass can be one of these parts, and either all or part of the drumset can be the other.
Some drummers can do this by themselves by playing straight time on hi hat or ride (sometimes snare as well) and behind the beat on the kick and/or snare.
Other instruments can get involved too. Lots of old reggae recordings have a guitar doubling (or near-doubling) the bass line but slightly behind it. It's also similar to the old tic-tac bass sound usually made with a Danelectro baritone guitar doubling the part of a lower upright or electric bass.
For this meaning of "pocket", hitting exactly with the drums is precisely not being in the pocket.
The challenges in this kind of playing are staying at a consistent delay time relative to the beat when you are in that role, but also knowing when to tighten it up to straight time in parts of the song (wherever there are the most lyrics or the arrangement is the most dense). Contrast is important, without it the effect is not as impressive.
Some drummers can do this by themselves by playing straight time on hi hat or ride (sometimes snare as well) and behind the beat on the kick and/or snare.
Other instruments can get involved too. Lots of old reggae recordings have a guitar doubling (or near-doubling) the bass line but slightly behind it. It's also similar to the old tic-tac bass sound usually made with a Danelectro baritone guitar doubling the part of a lower upright or electric bass.
For this meaning of "pocket", hitting exactly with the drums is precisely not being in the pocket.
The challenges in this kind of playing are staying at a consistent delay time relative to the beat when you are in that role, but also knowing when to tighten it up to straight time in parts of the song (wherever there are the most lyrics or the arrangement is the most dense). Contrast is important, without it the effect is not as impressive.
Excellent post. I can't figure this out for myself, but can copy bass parts that are like that. Even on some simple classic rock rock songs (Born on a Bayou by Creedence for example) the bass groove is slightly ahead of the down beat if its done right.
I would have said it was the alternative to the kind who are "lead bass" players. Some players treat the bass with a melodic approach - think prog guys, Chris Squire, that kind of thing. I don't think anyone ever comments on Squire playing "in the pocket." Playing in the pocket means playing more like you're firmly in the rhythm section, working with the drummer to lay down the foundational groove of the song.
How far behind the beat are we talking about? I've heard some examples of behind the beat playing where I could not for the life of me hear any delay.
On the other hand I'll often subdivide the beat into triplets or 16ths and drop the first note of the 16th or triplet while playing the second. That's obviously noticable but given the examples of behind the beat playing that I've heard I don't know that it qualifies as being "behind the beat"
In my arena, being a pocket player has to do with two things
not noodling (having a purpose in note/string selection) and more importantly locking in with the drummer.
1st off, I do not think its possible to be a pocket bass player without a drummer who is a pocket player. They create the pocket with consistent hits and perfect timing. (All the drummers I play with play to a click, unless doing jazz) After they create a pocket, it is our job to fill it in and lock up with them. I think the most important aspects of being a pocket player are note consistency and timing. You can be busy with fills and solos and still be a pocket player. ..if you lock well with the drummer.
At the same time, it is a poor excuse for someone who does not know the neck or theory to say they are a pocket player. If they just play roots and follow the kick but play with inconsistent note strikes or are not exact in time, then I dont believe they are a pocket player.
Personally, I have been guilty of noodling and not having a purpose in my playing lately. As a result, I am getting back to following the kick and hanging on the root more. Which serves the song better, but has little to do with being pocket (IMHO).
If you want to be in the pocket, find a pocket drummer and practice recording yourself with a metronome. If you find yourself with consistent volume and tone coming out of the amp while being precisely in time congratulations!!!! You are now at the beginning stages of being a pocket player regardless of genre or style.
This once again is how it is in my arena and only in my opinion. I know there are many definitions this is just how I view it .PEACE!
1st off, I do not think its possible to be a pocket bass player without a drummer who is a pocket player. They create the pocket with consistent hits and perfect timing. (All the drummers I play with play to a click, unless doing jazz) After they create a pocket, it is our job to fill it in and lock up with them. I think the most important aspects of being a pocket player are note consistency and timing. You can be busy with fills and solos and still be a pocket player. ..if you lock well with the drummer.
At the same time, it is a poor excuse for someone who does not know the neck or theory to say they are a pocket player. If they just play roots and follow the kick but play with inconsistent note strikes or are not exact in time, then I dont believe they are a pocket player.
Personally, I have been guilty of noodling and not having a purpose in my playing lately. As a result, I am getting back to following the kick and hanging on the root more. Which serves the song better, but has little to do with being pocket (IMHO).
If you want to be in the pocket, find a pocket drummer and practice recording yourself with a metronome. If you find yourself with consistent volume and tone coming out of the amp while being precisely in time congratulations!!!! You are now at the beginning stages of being a pocket player regardless of genre or style.
This once again is how it is in my arena and only in my opinion. I know there are many definitions this is just how I view it .PEACE!
Exactly - it's very difficult to do if you are consciously thinking about your right hand technique, because human beings are too coachable by our own minds - but easy if you hear it first.
The way to internalize this, at least as far as I know, is first to go by hearing it in other players, and then copy that when playing with your drummer until you can tell you're doing it right (which is usually pretty obvious), and then get to know how it feels.
Then, you'll be able to call it up on demand by how it feels, and from hearing your own sound as you play. In "The Inner Game" books this approach is defined as bypassing the critical self and supplying direct objective experience with what you are doing instead.
Of course, you've got to have a good drummer or it doesn't work; lesser drummers will lose the time altogether, or they won't do their half of the job, whether by failing to go behind the beat with their part, or they will correct back for your anticipation or delay (negating the pocket you just tried to create and making it sound like a mistake instead).
If I remember correctly "Cissy Strut" by the Meters has some beautifully behind the beat snare in parts of the song while the bass is on straight time.
I'm not if I gave you a specifically quantified answer (by loading something into a DAW, zooming in and placing markers, and calculating the difference), if it would be practical information.
So maybe the best answer is "up to as long as you can go without risking it sounding like a different note instead of a behind the beat version of the note you intended it to be".
The most extreme behind the beat playing I can think of is a fantastic song called "Eboness" on "the Diverse Yusef Lateef" where the melody of the song played on a flute, at times, goes up to about 2 1/2 or 3 entire beats (!!!) behind the beat. He brings in the effect gradually so that you can hear it in degrees.
The rest of the group is pretty much playing it straight. The bass might be a little bit behind some sort of tamborine or shaker. It's got one of my all time favorite drummers, Roy Brooks, with Cecil McBee on upright bass.
