What does the future look like for weekend warriors?

[obimark]

I'm seeing similar things in my area. There are actually a decent amount of bars around here that still have live music on a regular basis. The thing is, I'm seeing two types of acts that get most of the bookings:

- The 5 and 6 piece "semi pro" type working bands. They often have at least one female singer, put on a pro type stage show, etc. These are also the type of bands that get the county and local festivals, etc.
- One or two piece acoustic acts doing "singer songwriter" type things.

The weekend warrior type power trios like our band are getting squeezed out, and there's really only so much we can do to compete. We are fortunate that we have a couple local bars that book us consistently (except not in summer when there is little demand for indoor music at these places). We do bring in a small crowd. That said, we had a pretty bare schedule last summer, and it's looking like this year might be similar.

Unfortunately in ATL- even if you have massively good bass-playing, there is too much competition for the A-level corporate bands so without VERY good background and lead vocals, they shun you. (and while my chops are great, my vocals will peel paint)

 

[Groove Doctor]

As for the band scene dying in bars, I think its the bar scene thats dying out.....

However a band still makes a special event, and people still like it. It will never go away.

We still manage to play out as much as we want. There are bar gigs around. And weddings, parties, fundraisers, benefits, beertents, beerfests, etc.

Bingo! It's the BAR SCENE that's dying out & prob why bars are paying less and expecting us to bring a crowd. So what's outside the regular bar scene?

I could have joined a very busy band that played the Swing/ Jive Dancing circuit, early R&R, etc., but the pay is half what I get now. Plus there's only so much 12-Bar Blues a trained Muso can handle for peanuts....


For most people - a band is now the icing on the cake for a special event, not the cake itself. Weddings, Private Parties and Corporate events are the most lucrative, and there's certainly a lot of quality players doing those gigs.


Maybe the focus of this thread should shift towards how to get these non-bar gigs.....

 

[invader3k]

Unfortunately in ATL- even if you have massively good bass-playing, there is too much competition for the A-level corporate bands so without VERY good background and lead vocals, they shun you. (and while my chops are great, my vocals will peel paint)

That can be tough. I suppose competition to get into top bands is tough everywhere, though.

 

[fdeck]

Curious: have any of you experimented with live broadcasts of performances (either from a venue or studio)?

It seems like an interesting idea, but kinda goes in the opposite direction of where I think my "weekend warrior career" is headed. I've been trying to minimize my gear and setup footprint, so I can justify playing in smaller venues for a shrinking audience. I'm also trying to offer a more intimate and interactive performance, which goes along with the smaller footprint as well.

 

[pklima]

It seems like an interesting idea, but kinda goes in the opposite direction of where I think my "weekend warrior career" is headed. I've been trying to minimize my gear and setup footprint, so I can justify playing in smaller venues for a shrinking audience. I'm also trying to offer a more intimate and interactive performance, which goes along with the smaller footprint as well.

OTOH, how far are we from the point where all it's gonna take to do a live stream is a fan with a decent cell phone and a club with decent wifi?

 

[Helaskold]

Actually, point not missed. That song was not exceptional, in my humble opinion. If anyone other than some of the most famous musicians in the world had released that song, i doubt it would have gotten many clicks on Spotify or Pandora. Same old same old. Same problem faced by weekend warriors who play old tired songs over and over without fundamental variation. They are invisible, and barely worth the $50 or $100 a person they manage to squeeze out of a cynical bar owner. Sorry for the bleak assessment, but ignoring reality won't change it any more than slapping lipstick on a pig will make that animal something other than a blubbery oinker.

100% true. I've seen videos of Flea playing trumpet and people in the comments are going nuts about how cool it is, but I sure as hell wouldn't use that as proof that horn sections are still popular. It's because it's someone already famous. When is the last time a rock band got as big as RHCP/Green Day/U2? It's only the ones who were grandfathered in.

The future looks bleak, no sense in trying to deny it.

 

[Troph]

I completely agree that bands need to adapt; you have to be playing for your audience. That might mean that you're 25 and playing for guys that are all 50 at some corporate gig. That might mean you're 50 and playing at a venue that's full of 20 somethings. If there isn't an audience there, what can you do to build one?

Who is your audience in 2014? That generation that grew up getting a trophy when they occasionally showed up and did something? They are 20-30 somethings and now self-proclaimed experts, critics, enthusiasts, trend setters, foodies, and consultants, because they are all special, unique and above average somehow. They have a blog where the world is their audience once a week, but instagram and twitter and various other outlets means they are constantly on stage. Their "followers" and "subscribers" need to see just how amazing their Tuesday night was, and if they went to the bar around the corner to hear a cover band, that doesn't get "retweets" and "likes" and "favourites" and validation. There is too much white noise out there, so everything has to be one step above everything else to get noticed. They have to "discover" something "new" that they can tell the world about. If it wasn't for them, the world would still be putting ketchup and mustard on their burgers, and you haven't LIVED until you've eaten roasted red peppers, caramelized leeks and a quail egg on a bison burger.

This is extremely insightful market analysis, and frankly agrees with what I've heard in countless presentations by the high-paid marketing departments at my workplace for the last few years now.

I personally find the self-centered "I'm special" attitude of 20-somethings these days completely insufferable. But hey, if you want to sell something to them, you have to understand them first.

 

[fdeck]

This is extremely insightful market analysis, and frankly agrees with what I've heard in countless presentations by the high-paid marketing departments at my workplace for the last few years now.

I personally find the self-centered "I'm special" attitude of 20-somethings these days completely insufferable. But hey, if you want to sell something to them, you have to understand them first.

“When everybody thinks alike, everyone is likely to be wrong.”

Humphrey B. Neill, The Art of Contrary Thinking, 1954

 

[Troph]

“When everybody thinks alike, everyone is likely to be wrong.”

Humphrey B. Neill, The Art of Contrary Thinking, 1954

The funny thing is, if you're constantly trying to chase the latest fad, you will probably fail. But if you do a good job trying to make it seem like you are the latest fad, you can succeed with such consumers.

I'm not sure there's any way to try to make it look like classic rock covers are the latest fad, however...

 

[Gaolee]

This is extremely insightful market analysis, and frankly agrees with what I've heard in countless presentations by the high-paid marketing departments at my workplace for the last few years now.

I personally find the self-centered "I'm special" attitude of 20-somethings these days completely insufferable. But hey, if you want to sell something to them, you have to understand them first.

I believe what a high paid marketing department says about as much as I believe the tooth fairy will know what bass is best for metal.

My son is 23, and I play in a band with a couple of 26 year olds. None of them exhibit this characteristic. The singer acts like a singer, but that's not because she's 26. I find them to be fairly humble, willing to put in the time, and working at making their way in the world. Just like I did back when. What's different about them is that they don't seem to have the same economic expectations I have developed over the years. They probably will when they end up with families. For now, they get by and spend their money going to see live music when they are not playing. The two I play with have friends who show up to our shows on a regular basis. They aren't necessarily musicians who are returning the favor, either. My son goes to shows he isn't playing. So do his friends. This is a very small sample, of course, but I don't share the same level of pessimism. What they like is just different from what I liked going to see in 1978. Even so, it is not as different as you might think.

In varying degrees, they are bored with all the screens. They use them, but they don't confuse the screens with anything real. It's just their version of the telephone and the dictionary. Computers and phones and all that are just tools. They use those tools to figure out what they want to do, buy tickets, and that kind of thing.

Let's not get things crossed up in this discussion about the market we are discussing. There's a market for live music, and there always will be. It won't pay well, and it won't be a viable career choice for most people. There seems to be an idea that day job types, like me for example, can make a reasonable amount of money playing music. That's not going to happen, at least not by playing out two to four times a month. Corporate gigs and weddings are all fine and good, but I would consider those kinds of gigs to be more professional gigs played by people who can sight read and nail it with minimal or no rehearsal time. The people doing those gigs are professionals, or are as skilled as people who make a living playing. The weekend warrior bar band types are a different story, and that market is going to continue to exist. It just won't pay worth two pins.

For what its worth, there is a whole lot of opportunity to play in this area, but the amount you make will depend entirely on how many people show up. It could be based on the door, it could be a percentage of the bar, it could be some combination. I doubt that you would ever get paid a flat rate to pay in an bar or nightclub. Flat rates are what you get for weddings, corporate events, and the like. Cover bands will be in demand for those gigs, since those gigs tend to be very conservative relative. Bars and nightclubs, at least around here, are very open to original music. A lot of it is lousy, but there are plenty of venues for it.

 

[Bocete]

How does the youtube monetization process work? I have some bass tutorials/covers that have 15,000 hits? Should/Can I be getting paid for these? (even if I am covering a well known copyrighted song) WOuld love to know.

I've done a few covers on Youtube, of songs both famous and not that famous, and one of them was flagged for copyright which flagged my account permanently - 3 of those and you're out. The other songs were not flagged as such, but instead the copyright owner gets all the ad revenue. I wouldn't even be running ads if it were up to me, they put ads on by themselves.

I can give you plenty of resources on Youtube copyright and monetization. In short, you gotta be big enough to have a Youtube affiliate step up and protect your rights (and they take a big share), anyone can claim rights on your video and even if they're proven to not hold the rights, they get all the ad revenue until they revoke the claim for which they have a deadline of I believe 3 months? Do not do Youtube. The big content creators are already branching out, hoping to transition their crowd to a better platform.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Re Monetization on YouTube: Expect about $4-6K for every one million views. Pays better than Pandora.

 

[nukes_da_bass]

I play classic R&B. We don't gig a lot but we do get paid.
A few years back I was juggling two bands- the other band played classic schlock and 90s grunge. IMO, classic schlock is a dead format for live music, because the classic schlock radio stations have played it to death.
If I were to start a NEW cover band tomorrow, I'd focus on two types of contemporary music- the acoustic fusion that bands like Mumford and Sons, Jack johnson, and donovan frankenwriter are making popular, and danceable pop rock like The Killers and Franz Ferdanand...

 

[Gab124]

I play classic R&B. We don't gig a lot but we do get paid.
A few years back I was juggling two bands- the other band played classic schlock and 90s grunge. IMO, classic schlock is a dead format for live music, because the classic schlock radio stations have played it to death.
If I were to start a NEW cover band tomorrow, I'd focus on two types of contemporary music- the acoustic fusion that bands like Mumford and Sons, Jack johnson, and donovan frankenwriter are making popular, and danceable pop rock like The Killers and Franz Ferdanand...

I think there are some very important points made here. I see so many bands with talent that is good and bad, some really good play the same old worn out classic rock. My band does it too, but not without me complaining about it . Picking songs has now turned into the most complicated part for a cover band in demand - just behind landing the bookings. For us, we have found that adding in the most popular country seems to really make a difference in audience enjoyment. Of course, i am in Oklahoma, but it was not always that way. Granted, some of the modern country is just pop rock with twangy voices, but that is a different argument.

 

[fdeck]

The funny thing is, if you're constantly trying to chase the latest fad, you will probably fail. But if you do a good job trying to make it seem like you are the latest fad, you can succeed with such consumers.

I'm not sure there's any way to try to make it look like classic rock covers are the latest fad, however...

I think the prevailing stereotype of "millennials" is the latest fad among marketeers.

 

[Session1969]

I think there are some very important points made here. I see so many bands with talent that is good and bad, some really good play the same old worn out classic rock. My band does it too, but not without me complaining about it . Picking songs has now turned into the most complicated part for a cover band in demand - just behind landing the bookings. For us, we have found that adding in the most popular country seems to really make a difference in audience enjoyment. Of course, i am in Oklahoma, but it was not always that way. Granted, some of the modern country is just pop rock with twangy voices, but that is a different argument.

Picking songs is difficult and time consuming, I agree. When you take the time and do it right, it's great, though. I see ads in c/l for startups looking for a singer with a setlist already put together. It makes me laugh because I learned to wait until you find a singer and then pick songs based on what he/she can do.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I learned to wait until you find a singer and then pick songs based on what he/she can do.

Yup. Then you can be "his band" or "her band."

 

[GregT]

I think a lot of people are afraid to go out any more and get a DWI or a DUI. At least around here that is what has happened. I suppose that is good in some ways. Just not for the music scene.

 

[Mystic Michael]

I found myself reading this post using Boyd Crowder's voice.

Ah yes, Boyd Crowder: that most erudite hillbilly Bard; the Shakespeare of the South. My greatest literary influence: Boyd Crowder...and James Joyce.

MM

 

[Mystic Michael]

I told myself I wasn't going to comment on this thread. I haven't done the weekend warrior thing in a number of years. And I haven't been regularly playing classic rawk regularly for quite some time before that. But the direction this thread is taking is just too interesting to leave alone.

Music is a paradox. Always has been. Maybe that's one reason why it's so mysterious; so alluring. On the one hand, the world is changing rapidly - and the pace of that change only continues to accelerate. Including music. New sub-genres. New musical sub-cultures. New technologies - for production, for distribution, for promotion. And ultimately, new business models - that are based on all of the aforementioned.

On the other hand, music is eternal. It will always exist. And there will always be a desire (i.e. demand) for it. As with most things, it simply evolves (or sometimes devolves) from one level to the next. A constantly-moving target, if you will.

IMO, value in music falls into two broad, basic categories: novelty of content, and excellence of execution (and preferably both). Original music is typical of the former; cover tunes are typical of the latter. Whenever there is a major change of musical taste, original music (almost) always charts the new course and leads the way - with the best cover bands/artists seeking opportunistically to capitalize upon demand for the new genre/style as quickly as possible - until the audience eventually becomes bored, and it ultimately goes the way of the Gregorian chant, Tin Pan Alley novelty tunes, or English skiffle music. (By this reckoning, classic rawk has already had a good, long, long run. It's no wonder why audiences are longing for The Next Big Thing - whether they consciously realize it or not.

The bottom line is this: There will always be a demand for music - in one form or another. And originality and real creativity will always drive the value chain - even if it's only a savvy cover band that a) selects cover tunes very carefully so as to make a distinctive musical statement of its own, and/or b) creates stylistically unique arrangements of existing musical material, in order to develop its own musical voice through them.

So in general then, the more a covers band is able to think and behave like an original material band, the higher up the value-added ladder it is able to climb - and the farther away it is able to stay from the huge, dog-eat-dog cesspool of musical commodity; were everyone is still trying to sound like everyone else, so the only way remaining for them to compete is based on price.

MM