What does the future look like for weekend warriors?

[Troph]

I think the prevailing stereotype of "millennials" is the latest fad among marketeers.

Not a fad, unfortunately. In my organization, what you call "marketeers" are pretty different from the marketing teams at most companies. Their ranks include large numbers of data scientists, many of whom have PhDs in statistics and mathematics (not advertising), and who crunch business intelligence out of some of the largest data sets in the world. If they conclude that "XYZ is popular with such-and-such group", or "Group A is 65% more likely to think/believe X than Group B", then there is usually very impressive data backing it up.

You can blow it off as a "stereotype" all you want, but many stereotypes are deserved and -- most importantly -- useful.

 

[Groove Doctor]

I told myself I wasn't going to comment on this thread. I haven't done the weekend warrior thing in a number of years. And I haven't been regularly playing classic rawk regularly for quite some time before that. But the direction this thread is taking is just too interesting to leave alone.

Music is a paradox. Always has been. Maybe that's one reason why it's so mysterious; so alluring. On the one hand, the world is changing rapidly - and the pace of that change only continues to accelerate. Including music. New sub-genres. New musical sub-cultures. New technologies - for production, for distribution, for promotion. And ultimately, new business models - that are based on all of the aforementioned.

On the other hand, music is eternal. It will always exist. And there will always be a desire (i.e. demand) for it. As with most things, it simply evolves (or sometimes devolves) from one level to the next. A constantly-moving target, if you will.

IMO, value in music falls into two broad, basic categories: novelty of content, and excellence of execution (and preferably both). Original music is typical of the former; cover tunes are typical of the latter. Whenever there is a major change of musical taste, original music (almost) always charts the new course and leads the way - with the best cover bands/artists seeking opportunistically to capitalize upon demand for the new genre/style as quickly as possible - until the audience eventually becomes bored, and it ultimately goes the way of the Gregorian chant, Tin Pan Alley novelty tunes, or English skiffle music. (By this reckoning, classic rawk has already had a good, long, long run. It's no wonder why audiences are longing for The Next Big Thing - whether they consciously realize it or not.

The bottom line is this: There will always be a demand for music - in one form or another. And originality and real creativity will always drive the value chain - even if it's only a savvy cover band that a) selects cover tunes very carefully so as to make a distinctive musical statement of its own, and/or b) creates stylistically unique arrangements of existing musical material, in order to develop its own musical voice through them.

So in general then, the more a covers band is able to think and behave like an original material band, the higher up the value-added ladder it is able to climb - and the farther away it is able to stay from the huge, dog-eat-dog cesspool of musical commodity; were everyone is still trying to sound like everyone else, so the only way remaining for them to compete is based on price.

MM

Best post on TB for a LOOONG time. I'll have to digest that.


It leaves me pondering.....

- what's the next direction in music?

- What grass roots & underground sound now will soon emerge and be 'mainstream'?

- can we shape that? Or simply respond to it?

- which 'crowd' will be the first to adopt this new music direction?

- how can I get a 'slice of the pie'?

 

[DWBass]

Hmmm......there is no guarantee a cover band who behaves like an original material band, will garner more money than those that sound like jukebox version cover bands. In my vast experience (35+ years) gigging in New York & Virginia, the clients want just that (Jukebox version)! And if you're very good, the pay can be exceptional. You don't want to go too far outside the box. This has been my experience and my opinion only.

 

[Mystic Michael]

In general, cover bands try to identify the music that will appeal to the market. Original music bands try to identify the market to which their music will appeal.

MM

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

In general, cover bands try to identify the music that will appeal to the market. Original music bands try to identify the market to which their music will appeal.

MM

Very interesting. Not sure exactly what it all means but since the evening hour approaches, I'm aiming to pour a glass of tequila and ponder this wisdom. After I finish practicing, of course!

 

[sj_bass]

Hmmm......there is no guarantee a cover band who behaves like an original material band, will garner more money than those that sound like jukebox version cover bands. In my vast experience (35+ years) gigging in New York & Virginia, the clients want just that (Jukebox version)! And if you're very good, the pay can be exceptional. You don't want to go too far outside the box. This has been my experience and my opinion only.

Mostly agree... Although my cover band has made a solid niche for itself by playing songs that aren't in the jukebox to begin with. I was discussing this earlier with a guitardist about song selection. We get a lot of miles from songs by bands like Neve, The Refreshments, Eve 6, and a few others. Also, by selecting songs that had recognizable radio play but not staple songs, we have some liberty with the songs production.

Of course, we play the hits too, but having songs like Shimmer by Neve really helps to set us apart.

$20 grand reported on my taxes last year - not bad as a weekend warrior...

 

[pklima]

In general, cover bands try to identify the music that will appeal to the market. Original music bands try to identify the market to which their music will appeal.

Could be, but I think most cover bands don't do a very good job. If you want to identify music that will appeal to the market, look at the DJ Intelligence top 200 requests and see what percentage of the top 20 you know. Then look at the current Billboard top 10.

I mean you could try to identify a market too, I've done pretty well with a "from samba to reggaeton" range of Latin music. That works too.

But the "cover band that plays the most popular songs possible" ideal hasn't been tried and found wanting; it's mostly been found difficult and left untried. I don't really think it takes pro-level skill, though. It's just songs made up of notes and words.

 

[DWBass]

Mostly agree... Although my cover band has made a solid niche for itself by playing songs that aren't in the jukebox to begin with. I was discussing this earlier with a guitardist about song selection. We get a lot of miles from songs by bands like Neve, The Refreshments, Eve 6, and a few others. Also, by selecting songs that had recognizable radio play but not staple songs, we have some liberty with the songs production.

Of course, we play the hits too, but having songs like Shimmer by Neve really helps to set us apart.

$20 grand reported on my taxes last year - not bad as a weekend warrior...

Here's the thing. That can work when you're playing mostly rock based music. Variety Top40 is R&B, Motown, Disco, Pop, Latin, Reggae and other ethnic styles which doesn't leave much room for alternate arrangements. I don't know of too many corporate/wedding/private party bands that just do the rock thing unless it's specifically requested. Those bands you just mentioned......I never heard of! I think many of us think of cover bands differently.

 

[Altitude]

Mostly agree... Although my cover band has made a solid niche for itself by playing songs that aren't in the jukebox to begin with.

If your band plays music the bar manager doesn't recognize, your band is essentially an original band. That can be pulled off, but you have to have a draw to do it sustainably.

I also enjoy finding cool "off the beaten path" covers that the band likes - I will say that we've picked a few that cleared the floor and probably lost a couple gigs by result. Maybe we just suck.

 

[rtslinger]

We are doing okay here in NJ we have shows booked out to Dec thankfully we are in rotation with 5 clubs yearly we average 100 per 5 member doing Classic Rock our band has been on the nj music scene for the past 10 years. RTS

Sat Mar 15 Club(9pm)

Sat Mar 22 Club 9:30pm)

Sat Mar 29 Club (9pm)

Sat Apr 19 club (9pm)

Sat May 3 Club (9pm)


Fri May 16 Club (9pm)
Sat May 17 Club (9pm)

Sat May 24 Club (9pm)

Sat Jun 14 Club (9pm)

Sat Jun 21 Club (9pm)

Thu Jul 3 Private Event (XR)

Fri Jul 4 Private Event (XR)

Sat Jul 5 Private Event (XR)


Sat Jul 12 Private Event (XR)

Sun Jul 13 Private Event (XR)


Sat Jul 19 Club (9pm)

Sat Jul 26 Club (9pm)

Sat Aug 16 Club (9pm)

Sun Aug 31 Club (6pm )

Sat Sep 20 Club (9pm)

Sat Oct 18 Club (9pm)

Sat Nov 15 Club (9pm)

Sat Dec 13 Private Event (XR)


Sat Dec 20 Club (9pm)

 

[dangerouscello]

Very interesting topic. Maybe I'm in a strange place (Philadelphia) but there seem to be a lot of places around here to play, if you want to, with the money varying from place to place.

I agree with the earlier "content and execution" post. I find that both tend to be lacking in a lot of bands. It's HARD to be a cover band that nails the execution. It's difficult to be tight, have great entrances and get back in the pocket after the drummer drops a beat. I'm from the school where playing the notes correctly and in time is enough, but a lot of bands aren't even giving me that. You want to play a new song on Friday, hone it Saturday and have it down by Sunday? Fine with me, so long as your musicianship can back that up. I've seen a number of cover bands lately, and I'm just not sure that the effort is being put in. And if you're not putting in the effort to be an awesome experience, then why should I come out to see you?

On the other hand, originals bands have momentum against them. They've got to not only write good songs and play them well, but also win over a crowd who wants to hear their favorite songs. Until you become the band that people want to cover, you're competing with everyone's comfort of the familiar. My favorite song is playing on the radio; what is this crap playing in the next room? And don't get me started on musicianship here. I played a show this weekend with a band that made me want to gouge my ears out. Not only did that not have a bass player (big mistake in my opinion ) but it was quite possibly the worst thing I ever heard. With live music like that, I wanted to have stayed home myself.

This came out sounding a lot more depressing than I thought.

tl;dr I think there are three things at play: fewer places paying money for bands, fewer people coming out to listen, and a glut of awful bands (cover and originals) that make me wish for the end of music altogether.

 

[DWBass]

I think there are three things at play: fewer places paying money for bands, fewer people coming out to listen, and a glut of awful bands (cover and originals) that make me wish for the end of music altogether.

Again, it depends on the area. There are a lot of places to play around here. If you're doing the bar thing, there ain't but so much money to be made unless you are a huge draw and the bar can afford to pay you more. Other than that, you can make some decent money by getting with one of the agents. You have to be good though! They won't touch a mediocre to bad band. I do agree in my area, there a LOT of awful bands playing the bar scene but somehow, they continue to get gigs. Hell, I was in one of them! My pride made me quit that band though. Couldn't take the embarrassment anymore.

 

[Factor88]

In general, cover bands try to identify the music that will appeal to the market. Original music bands try to identify the market to which their music will appeal.

MM

Excellent point.

I would say that successful bands (both cover and original) find a way to incorporate both approaches. They may sound mutually exclusive, but they don't have to be.

 

[HockeyDawg]

What surprises me a bit is I played a show last Saturday that was about 2 miles from one of the biggest party schools around, ASU and we had 12 people in the audience. We play original music so it's not like we're playing hackneyed covers. There were about 6 bands that played that night and from what I saw, there were never more than about 25 people at any given time watching a band. Some of the bands were pretty bad IMHO, but to me, a bar that can't pack the place on a Saturday night that close to a major college is doing something wrong.

What I see as a major problem here is the "Promoter" culture that's been developing. Clubs just hire a so called promoter that does nothing other than make bands sell tickets then give them a tiny percentage. Most of what were my favorite clubs to play have disappeared.

 

[obimark]

I'm actually planning to have some fun- the next bar owner that asks' What's your band draw?

I am going to say, "Hey man I am having a party at my house next weekend, I want you to come sling drinks all night for free, fry up hot wings on my grill for free, and make sure you bring at least 50 people to come do it, because you'll get the EXPOSURE. Oh and one other thing, just like you sorry-A clowns who own a bar but don't own any PA, I need you to also bring your own grill, because even though I have a party at my house every weekend, I don't own a grill. So be here EARLY to set up."
Funny when the shoe's on the other foot.

 

[Basshappi]

Let us know how well that works out for you.

 

[bluesblaster]

I'm actually planning to have some fun- the next bar owner that asks' What's your band draw?

I am going to say, "Hey man I am having a party at my house next weekend, I want you to come sling drinks all night for free, fry up hot wings on my grill for free, and make sure you bring at least 50 people to come do it, because you'll get the EXPOSURE. Oh and one other thing, just like you sorry-A clowns who own a bar but don't own any PA, I need you to also bring your own grill, because even though I have a party at my house every weekend, I don't own a grill. So be here EARLY to set up."
Funny when the shoe's on the other foot.

please report back, I think thats a great idea. I would start by asking how many people can we expect to play to as we dont care for playing to an empty house. If you cant gaurantee us an audience we'll go someplace that can. Throw it back in there face , Bar owners are such lazy f**ks these days.

 

[obimark]

please report back, I think thats a great idea. I would start by asking how many people can we expect to play to as we dont care for playing to an empty house. If you cant gaurantee us an audience we'll go someplace that can. Throw it back in there face , Bar owners are such lazy f**ks these days.

Amen- I wonder if I should ask them to supply the food and drinks as well? ;-)

 

[Toptube]

I think this thread has shifted from the original topic.

Right now it seems to be about how to be successful band.


But the original topic was about what's happening with venues. The general feeling being that there are less places to play, than before. Regardless of whether or not a band is actually any good.

Example: In the past two years in Seattle, several long time places have either closed or changed hands.

 

[Space Pickle]

LET THE WEEKEND WARS COMMENCE