What does the future look like for weekend warriors?

[Altitude]

I think you've missed the point here, is turn about not fair play? if not, we might as well stop playing in clubs altogether, would you go to your day job and not get paid for your labor? I hardly think so.

We're about to cross into the territory covered exhaustively by threads about that "Open Letter to a Bar Owner." I'm not the thread police, so if that happens it happens - although it's a slightly different topic.

I do think that here we get into the shades of gray about the kind of place you're playing. If it's a bar, where people go to drink, and there might be a band playing Mustang Sally for their entertainment, that drives behavior one way. If, on the other hand, it's a live music venue where the main objective of the people who are there is to see the band advertised as playing that night - and maybe they will buy a drink or two while there - that is something different. As a band, you kind of have to understand which situation you are in, and how that changes your job.

I just simply think that there are a lot fewer places in general that feature or have live music now than 25 years ago, and live music is used even less in non-bar situations like weddings and parties. All of which lead to substantially lower gig opportunity.

 

[Lobomov]

I think you've missed the point here, is turn about not fair play? if not, we might as well stop playing in clubs altogether, would you go to your day job and not get paid for your labor? I hardly think so.

No, I think he got it just right. The reason you get paid at you day job is, because you have a skill set that is in demand. You can't just show up somewhere and demand to get paid because you can fart with your left ear or something.

Also at your day job, if you start to get all artistic and do things differently than your employer ask you to, then you get fired. There is no 'fairness' there.

When people want something from you, then you can set the price and when you want something the other way, they set the price. No one is forcing you to play anywhere.


Unfortunately times are changing and the bar scene is dying

 

[SnowCal]

The future is already here for some of us.

I live in a city of 90k (+25k more a short drive). We have a university, a young bar-going population, and an alcohol problem. We have inexplicable riots on holidays like Cesar Chavez Day. The city runs regional ad buys urging people not to visit our city during holidays.

You'd think there might be some working bands here, weekend warriors getting their $100/man every Friday night at Mo's Diveclub. There aren't. There are cover bands that play for free at the pool hall. You can also play for free on the sidewalk at the Farmer's Market and on Friday nights in the city park. There are many opportunities to play for free. But there aren't any working bands here. The originals bands make chump change but they're actually more profitable than the cover guys.

There is a band of mostly local musicians that plays covers on the casino circuit (and a few other events). Being as the closest casino is about 30 minutes away that's the shortest trip you're going to make to one of their gigs. They don't play in the city they all live in. Nobody's hiring live bands here.

If you're a DJ though.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

My local metropolis is a city of 15,000. The rural county, one of the largest geographically in California, has just 75,000 squirreled away in god knows how many corners. There are opps to play for free at community festivals and events, farmers markets, fund-raising benefits, etc. I grab those when possible. There are casinos but I can't stand the cigarette smoke. The other paying venues are wineries, and if they pay, it's typically $50-150 for the band plus possibly 3-6 bottles of wine. Good luck getting tips. Most of the local wine is swill so you have to choke that down. As for private events, the population is generally on welfare-poor-to-middle class so not much hiring in that department. There is one bar in town that has regular live music but it's mainly for a bunch of stoners and drunks and pays little to nothing. All in all, pretty pathetic if you want to make money at this craft. So the choice is clear - to play live in this rural neck of the woods, you either play for free or low dollars. I don't consider the local competition to be that stiff talent-wise. But in terms of venues, it is what it is.

 

[DWBass]

The bar scene isn't dying where I live. Pretty much depends where you live. This area is Military and is also a Tourist Attraction. Virginia Beach alone has bars/venues all up and down the street mirroring the length of the boardwalk (Atlantic & Pacific Avenues) including several stages right on the beach boardwalk itself. There are festivals of all types throughout the spring, summer and fall. Every city (there are 7 that make up Hampton Roads) has a summer outdoor concert series. Not to mention all the bars/venues in the different cities of Hampton Roads. The scene is a vibrant one. They may not pay a whole lot but a lot of bands are doing quite well.

 

[Factor88]

I think you've missed the point here, is turn about not fair play? if not, we might as well stop playing in clubs altogether, would you go to your day job and not get paid for your labor? I hardly think so.

Nope, I don't think I missed the point, because this is not "turnabout". When I answer an add for a day job, the employer has told me (and everyone else) "I NEED a good person"..at which point, if I can sell the employer on the fact that I have the skills and experience to help his company achieve its goals, I will then not only be in a position to land the day job, but negotiate my compensation to my requirements.

However, if I walk into the local accounting firm, and ask if they are hiring, and am in turn asked by the Company President what I can bring to the Company table, and I, in turn, give some smart assed" turnabout" comment about how that depends on how well you train me, give me resources, provide me with an established client list...well I will be laughed out of the building.

Of course, the person who posted the comment that I raised the issue with may have new business calling him all the time with offers of gigs.

 

[hopturn]

I play in a great city for live music...Charleston, SC, and I'm quite sorry for those who may not. There's several colleges here, lots of tourists year round and quite a few venues and bars. Great thing about Charleston SC is the wedding/event stuff...which pays big money if you have a deep setlist of covers. Over the last couple of years we've added Ableton Live sequencing into parts of our set...and that's really helped bring the "young'uns" to the stage. We are currently planning to add DJ'ing to our roster of what we can offer clients...which will cut down on our required performance time, help us maximize our impact live by just kicking two hours of a$$, and it could eventually drive up our price even further as many of our guests choose to hire a DJ in addition to us anyway. We're essentially planning to just go with the flow and steal a few gigs back from the DJ's this way by just doing it ourselves as an extra service.

As for original music, every member of the wedding/event band plays in an original band...mostly the same original band. Obviously it doesn't pay as much or as often, but weddings/events and bar gigs don't really interfere with each other for booking purposes...they actually complement each other since many potential event clients first hear about us in bars (or choose to come preview us in bars they frequent, so we're always playing our hearts out every night). We can also now afford the best equipment, which makes our original music that much better.

I don't think that live music is dead at all...I think people are just smarter about what they want and what they should expect. IF YOU ARE THIS GENERATIONS STEVIE RAY then you probably don't need to bring a couple extra LED par cans with you...the rest of us do. Refresh your setlist and encourage other local bands to do the same. Go support each other and create a local buzz. Every member of our band has upped their game and have learned how to rig the PA and get a decent sound going...and we all set up and tear down the PA every night, and probably bring a little more to some gigs than others...but we also keep a full calendar every month, so I think it's worth it. I'd like to add that most musicians need to see themselves in a larger context than just a "local band" mentality.

That being said, we still want to kill the drummer occasionally...the guitarist is still too loud...the singer can never hear himself even with in-ears...the drummer needs a sidefill...I'm the bassist so therefore perfect...yadda, yadda. Polish what can be polished.

 

[Altitude]

I play in a great city for live music...Charleston, SC, and I'm quite sorry for those who may not. There's several colleges here, lots of tourists year round and quite a few venues and bars. Great thing about Charleston SC is the wedding/event stuff...which pays big money if you have a deep setlist of covers. Over the last couple of years we've added Ableton Live sequencing into parts of our set...and that's really helped bring the "young'uns" to the stage. We are currently planning to add DJ'ing to our roster of what we can offer clients...which will cut down on our required performance time, help us maximize our impact live by just kicking two hours of a$$, and it could eventually drive up our price even further as many of our guests choose to hire a DJ in addition to us anyway. We're essentially planning to just go with the flow and steal a few gigs back from the DJ's this way by just doing it ourselves as an extra service.

As for original music, every member of the wedding/event band plays in an original band...mostly the same original band. Obviously it doesn't pay as much or as often, but weddings/events and bar gigs don't really interfere with each other for booking purposes...they actually complement each other since many potential event clients first hear about us in bars (or choose to come preview us in bars they frequent, so we're always playing our hearts out every night). We can also now afford the best equipment, which makes our original music that much better.

I don't think that live music is dead at all...I think people are just smarter about what they want and what they should expect. IF YOU ARE THIS GENERATIONS STEVIE RAY then you probably don't need to bring a couple extra LED par cans with you...the rest of us do. Refresh your setlist and encourage other local bands to do the same. Go support each other and create a local buzz. Every member of our band has upped their game and have learned how to rig the PA and get a decent sound going...and we all set up and tear down the PA every night, and probably bring a little more to some gigs than others...but we also keep a full calendar every month, so I think it's worth it. I'd like to add that most musicians need to see themselves in a larger context than just a "local band" mentality.

That being said, we still want to kill the drummer occasionally...the guitarist is still too loud...the singer can never hear himself even with in-ears...the drummer needs a sidefill...I'm the bassist so therefore perfect...yadda, yadda. Polish what can be polished.

You might be working in a more fertile than average environment, but it sounds to me like you are doing a lot of things right. Combining the live band and DJ offerings is brilliant, for sure. And if you and your cohorts have managed to fully separate the cover band and original band ethos, you can comfortably go to work as a cover band without the baggage a lot of those bands have. It's "my other car is a Porsche", sort of.

Nice post - looks like you have figured out some solutions.

 

[bluesblaster]

Nope, I don't think I missed the point, because this is not "turnabout". When I answer an add for a day job, the employer has told me (and everyone else) "I NEED a good person"..at which point, if I can sell the employer on the fact that I have the skills and experience to help his company achieve its goals, I will then not only be in a position to land the day job, but negotiate my compensation to my requirements.

However, if I walk into the local accounting firm, and ask if they are hiring, and am in turn asked by the Company President what I can bring to the Company table, and I, in turn, give some smart assed" turnabout" comment about how that depends on how well you train me, give me resources, provide me with an established client list...well I will be laughed out of the building.

Of course, the person who posted the comment that I raised the issue with may have new business calling him all the time with offers of gigs.

OK, let me rephrase this, yes the day job analogy is not a very good one, thats a bread and butter gig to live, however your music is still a skill set, I dont mind doin free bees for good causes but Im not gonna get pissed on by some tavern owner that thinks he's got one up on me, If he's resonable than there is room to negotiate, but I will just get together with friends and make music for the enjoyment of it before I let someone take advantage of me just because he thinks he can. Your skill set as a musician has monetary value out there, dont buy into that lame excuse, " how many people can you bring to my bar" that job is mostly theres, if they cant bring in people on any given night for band XYZ, than they might need to re-evaluate why there in the business at all or at the very least should probably not bother with LIVE entertainment because clearly, like alot of them, have no clue what there doing

 

[obimark]

I am sad that my little attempt at irony is completely missed by many-
my point was...
Why as musicians are we expected to play for peanuts, in clubs that have music every weekend, but don't even provide a PA? And bring our friends to said club, have them buy drinks, and food?
So for turnabout, how would a bar owner, like if I offer them the exact same deal in reverse, you can come to my backyard bbq, where my band is playing, provide free food, provide your grill to cook the food (just like half these dumps don't even own a PA), free drinks, (sling those drinks) and do it for either peanuts or free! because you will benefit from the exposure, Hell I'll even LET you put up your own bar flyers around my house! ;-)

 

[MikeCanada]

OK, let me rephrase this, yes the day job analogy is not a very good one, thats a bread and butter gig to live, however your music is still a skill set, I dont mind doin free bees for good causes but Im not gonna get pissed on by some tavern owner that thinks he's got one up on me, If he's resonable than there is room to negotiate, but I will just get together with friends and make music for the enjoyment of it before I let someone take advantage of me just because he thinks he can. Your skill set as a musician has monetary value out there, dont buy into that lame excuse, " how many people can you bring to my bar" that job is mostly theres, if they cant bring in people on any given night for band XYZ, than they might need to re-evaluate why there in the business at all or at the very least should probably not bother with LIVE entertainment because clearly, like alot of them, have no clue what there doing

I think the day job analogy is a good one, but unfortunately not in the way that you see it.

Plenty of day jobs, that should be "bread and butter" gigs for people who need to eat, are expecting you to work for less or for free now. I am sure that we all know someone who has lost a job, taken a pay cut, lost benefits, retirement packages, stability, etc. We have all seen what used to be regular work turned into contract work, businesses that used to have someone on staff who did a certain task that is now outsourced to someone somewhere else etc.

A lot of the weekend warrior troubles we are seeing here and talking about are reflected in every other sector as well. This includes honorarium, low paying, volunteer and free gigs. There are thousands upon thousands of interns out there in fields that never used to have them before, being completely taken advantage of, because they can't find real paying work. In Canada and the US, an internship is supposed to provide training and experience that is of benefit to the intern, they are not allowed to do the work that should be done by a paid employee, and the employee derives "no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern" or "little, if any, benefit from the activity of the intern" depending on which side of the border you are on. And categorically, this is not the case.

I know we are to refrain from talking about politics here, which is not what I am trying to do. I am just trying to point out that there are significant similarities between "real" jobs, and our gigs. And venue owners, promoters, event planners, corporate gigs... they are employing the exact same tactics on musicians. Just like every other so called Employer or Job Creator out there they hold the power, and increasingly they are abusing that power. Why would they pay a band good money, when they know they can get a different band for less, or another one for free? Why would they have live music at all, when they can have a comparable experience with a sound system and an iPod? "The economy" "tough times" "we don't have a budget for entertainment" "we're struggling as much as you are" I am sure we have all heard some of the same lines over and over again.

So how do we fix the problem?

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I know we are to refrain from talking about politics here, which is not what I am trying to do. I am just trying to point out that there are significant similarities between "real" jobs, and our gigs. And venue owners, promoters, event planners, corporate gigs... they are employing the exact same tactics on musicians. Just like every other so called Employer or Job Creator out there they hold the power, and increasingly they are abusing that power. Why would they pay a band good money, when they know they can get a different band for less, or another one for free? Why would they have live music at all, when they can have a comparable experience with a sound system and an iPod? "The economy" "tough times" "we don't have a budget for entertainment" "we're struggling as much as you are" I am sure we have all heard some of the same lines over and over again.

So how do we fix the problem?

Hi Mike, your own country is at least giving its own musicians a leg up in this fight and penalizing small venues for hiring non-Canadian musicians. I read about the new law that charges each venue $275 per international musician and each person traveling with the band (manager, tech, sound man, etc.) PLUS $150 for each of those person's work permits. Canadian venue owners claim this is crushing their ability to provide live entertainment. But from a Canadian musician's perspective, isn't that helping your own cause?

Here's the source from the National Post: Link Removed

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Side note - I find a lot of old bar players are ending up in Praise and Worship bands at church now. And a lot of new musicians are getting their start there instead of in the clubs. Is this our future?

For kids that attend churches, yes it's a good place to get a start. Regular (hopefully) rehearsals, typically lead by someone more experienced, and a good opportunity to get rid or curb that stage fright that most people get when they start out.

Going to try hitting up some local youth/singles groups and see what spots are open. Good way to network with other musicians as well.

 

[Session1969]

From what I've seen...the DJ's play the music that the patrons want to hear. I quit a band last June. Part of the reason was that the BL just didn't get it. We kept playing the same s**t gig after gig after gig after...............!! And most of it didn't get folks up to dance. We'd take a break and the DJ would spark up and immediately the floor was filled. So I told him he needs to write down the names of the songs the DJ is playing and work them into the setlist. Never happened and the patrons always complained "we don't want to hear that sappy love song s**t, we want to dance'. And this one spot was known as a stepper club. If you don't know what 'stepping' is, look it up! Last March or April 2013, when Blurred Lines first hit, I told BL, 'yo, we need to add that'! Never happened. I quit in June 2013. You know when they finally played it? October 2013. Over 6 months later! And that was the only current top40 tune in their setlist. The band is all but defunct now!

I'm telling you. Everyone who isn't taking notice about why patrons in their 20's and 30's prefer dj's is left in the dust these days. The dj's and reggae bands in my area pack bars better than anything else. I hate to break the news but it's not the bar owner trying to skimp on entertainment costs. It's the demand of the patrons. Sound quality, keeping the the beat going, visual stimulation are the three areas that stick out the most to me. I'm going to give my theory on just the sound thing as a former raver/clubber because I have to go run some erands.

I notice that in very small places dj's bring their subs, no matter what. There's a depth of tone that gets lost when bands get by with no f.o.h. Kids(teens,20's,30's) like to really feel the bass and drums because many have subs in the systems they listen to at home and in their cars. They have high standards. I dont mean crazy loud either. I just mean super good quality sound. Most dj's are fanatical about it. How many of us are about the quality of our sound reinforcement ? I've just started and I'm going to see. I bought an awesome system for light-med gigs,12" tops,18" subs. My intent is to always use them.

Really like this thread,btw. It could help all of us if we share insights.

 

[MikeCanada]

Dave, it is government propaganda at its finest. First, it isn't each venue. It is a one time fee that is supposed to cover the administration costs of obtaining a temporary work permit. Which you also have to pay $150 for, and that $150 apparently doesn't cover the "costs" associated with granting it? What do they print these things on? How many hours does it take how many workers to come up with a permit?

Basically it costs a one time fee of $425 for each international artist to be able to play in Canada, for the entire duration of their work visa. Hypothetically, the artist is paying $150 for the visa, and the "venue" or "booking agent" is paying the $275, but realistically it's just getting tucked into the overall cost for the musicians.

The propaganda: "We (the Canadian Government) haven't raised the cost of the temporary work permit since 1997. And we still haven't." You're just supposed to ignore the fact that they've added on this new "processing fee" because it is unfair to Canadian Tax Payers to have to "cover" that cost. Apparently for all of these years, we've been charging tax payers $275 for every single permit given to every single international artist. Now we are righting that wrong.

Does it really hurt "bar owners, coffee shops, restaurants" and the other venues that the article is trying to sensationalize? How many coffee shops do you know bringing in a foreign act, where that is the only show that they are playing for the entire time that they are in the country? How many restaurants typically feature international bands on Tuesday nights for dinner? Like I said, I really don't see the venues eating this cost. If anything, they will use it as leverage against the musicians saying that they had to pay the fee, so now they've got $275 less money to pay each musician.

Likewise, it doesn't free up $275 per musician to Canadian acts, it just makes it more expensive/challenging for international acts to get a work visa. If it was for every single show that the international act played, and it was proven that the venues were eating the costs and not just passing them on to the artists, then maybe those places would consider hiring Canadian talent instead. It isn't, and they aren't.

 

[bluesblaster]

doesnt anyone do the "Twist" anymore ????????

OK, you know the drill .... Get off my lawn !

thats right Im old and trecherous, I still think what I do is relevant somewhere and expect to be paid accordingly. I dont hip hop or rap and I aint a gonna neither. I dont pander to self absorbed 20 somethings, I do what I do well and if they dig it great, if they dont, they know where the nearest disco is.

The point here is dont be a chump, get paid, this is america

 

[obimark]

doesnt anyone do the "Twist" anymore ????????

OK, you know the drill .... Get off my lawn !

thats right Im old and trecherous, I still think what I do is relevant somewhere and expect to be paid accordingly. I dont hip hop or rap and I aint a gonna neither. I dont pander to self absorbed 20 somethings, I do what I do well and if they dig it great, if they dont, they know where the nearest disco is.

The point here is dont be a chump, get paid, this is america

Amen!!

 

[Kragnorak]

Observation: I have seen many appeals especially on FaceBook for bands to support each other and attend local music shows.

I have mixed feelings about these appeals. The general consensus seems to be that if musicians don't go to each other's shows then there won't be much in the way of an audience. Following the logic, can you imagine if restauranteurs were pleading with each other to eat out at each other's restaurants because everybody else is staying home?

The demand is unfortunately low for small music venues and I don't think going for the "sympathy vote" is very helpful. It would be better if shows were attractive enough for people to attend without prodding. Not sure what the solution is here.

In the food analogy, people eat out because the food and environment is superior and less hassle than what they may create at home. Maybe the answer is to have the music be superior than what people can consume at home. Since people can now watch concert footage of great musicians on their home theaters for free, it doesn't help when local live music doesn't sound as good. The responsibility for the music to sound better is shared between musicians, sound men and venues. In one place I played, there was a blown speaker broadcasting horrible sound and a giant aluminum duct in the middle of the ceiling that seemed to resonate with every bass frequency. Not many bands will sound good in that environment, especially at high volumes!

 

[invader3k]

Re: Bands supporting each other... I kind of agree. I play in a cover band, so it's slightly different. I do try to make it out to see other bands occasionally, but frankly I don't have much time between our own shows, practices, and family commitments. A lot of the appeals I see on Facebook come off as rather whiny, to be honest.

 

[sj_bass]

Before this thread gets too derailed and abandoned by the Mods, let me just address weekend warrior (WW) aspect of the last few comments...

As a WW, I play in a very steady cover band that does not go fishing for 'likes' or band support. We play a number of bars with steady patrons - they come to see us play at 'their' bar, but don't follow us around. Our Facebook presence is nominal; we post pictures and updates on future shows, and we don't plaster any walls with 50 posts. The metrics for the page are rock steady - not a lot of 'likes' (+/-500), but over 10% engagement in our posts.

I also play in a few tribute acts. A lot more work and not as much reward. One tribute is very active in self-promotion as they are trying to build a niche for themselves. But, as a tribute, the can only play once or maybe twice a month. I once thought that this was the new direction for the WW, but now I'm not so sure. There's some saturation of the market here in Southern Cal, and it's not going to improve anytime soon...

Most importantly... if you're a WW, then be certain that you don't suck, and you'll do just fine.