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What exactly does a compressor do? I need some enlightenment.
- Thread starter JoshSmith
- Start date
Ya, that's expanding, not compressing.
Anyway, the correct answer is comps are fun to learn about what they do, but while they serve a generally noble purpose, not everyone needs or wants one. I used to use one and don't anymore because while there was a time I liked to slightly limit my dynamic range, I don't anymore because I think my tone is bigger and bolder and beats through the mix better without it. Plus sound techs usually run a little compression on the bass anyway, just to keep us from blowing their PA's. I also would say if you're just learning the bass, best not to use them while practicing because they can disguise flaws in your technique. But I see a lot of really great bassists using compressors, some as occasional effects, some always on, and whatever it takes to get their sound, it's all good to me.
Anyway, the correct answer is comps are fun to learn about what they do, but while they serve a generally noble purpose, not everyone needs or wants one. I used to use one and don't anymore because while there was a time I liked to slightly limit my dynamic range, I don't anymore because I think my tone is bigger and bolder and beats through the mix better without it. Plus sound techs usually run a little compression on the bass anyway, just to keep us from blowing their PA's. I also would say if you're just learning the bass, best not to use them while practicing because they can disguise flaws in your technique. But I see a lot of really great bassists using compressors, some as occasional effects, some always on, and whatever it takes to get their sound, it's all good to me.
I use a compressor to keep my speakers from over excursion...it can keep an amp from clipping too.
Compressors have always been used in pro recordings since at least the 1950's.
There are a LOT of crappy compressors and you must learn how to set one up properly even with the best comps.
Compressors have always been used in pro recordings since at least the 1950's.
There are a LOT of crappy compressors and you must learn how to set one up properly even with the best comps.
The only time I use a compressor is if I have to play slappy, bangy, pull off full music ( which thankfully I rarely do). The compressor can help to stop these over loud transients causing grief. Don't forget that a compressor can also take the edge off your sound if you play with picks or nails. They can also make finger style become very dull.
bongomania
Commercial User
http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/dynamics.shtml
There are several people in this thread who I'm responding to, not just Fernando.
Ok, let's approach this differently. I and many guys here know the "abc" of compressors, and know how to use them, and we also know the difference between the sound that we heard and the sound that the audience hears, or should hear. This is not the topic subject, I referred to the Ovnilab article.
It's not correct nor smart underestimate people who do not know assuming they have no knowledge just because they disagree with our opinion or "taste".
I did not wrote that compressors "kill" the (my) dynamics (Ovnilab), I wrote "destroy the natural dinamics", not "only dinamics" or "all dinamics". It's just my preference, I "prefer" not to use them because I like my sound the way it is, also wrote that I agree with some of the advantages that this type of artificial effect has. I don't think it is hard to understand, with some naturalness.
Cheers.
It's not correct nor smart underestimate people who do not know assuming they have no knowledge just because they disagree with our opinion or "taste".
I did not wrote that compressors "kill" the (my) dynamics (Ovnilab), I wrote "destroy the natural dinamics", not "only dinamics" or "all dinamics". It's just my preference, I "prefer" not to use them because I like my sound the way it is, also wrote that I agree with some of the advantages that this type of artificial effect has. I don't think it is hard to understand, with some naturalness.
Cheers.
How'd you set a compressor to enhance dynamics?
I am mixing song at the moment and find that using mild multi compression on the master helps greatly in separating parts just enough making the mix a lot more transparent and each part inhabit its own space ...but how does one get more dynamics into it again( not saying that this is an issue but more a point of interest)
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It would be tough to do on a full mix, but on an individual part like bass, one way to do something like that would be to set a slow attack and a low threshold. The peaks (which are essentially only the attack portion) Stay the same, but the rest of the note is lowered in volume. When you bring it all back up to the same volume using gain compensation, what you get are note that have the same sustain volume as before, but with bigger peaks in the attack portion. Essentially, you end up with more punch because you're modifying the peak/RMS ratio.
Just to add to the discussion: Most people that hate compression don't really know how to make a compressor sound good.
When I first discovered guitar distortion, I thought that anything that made a fzzzzzz sound on the guitar was good.... hey, it was distorted. But as you learn and listen, you start to realize that there is good distortion & bad distortion. Bad distortion takes away all the dynamics from the guitar (because many of them are basically hard clipping limiters), and makes it so none of the character of the guitar actually makes it through. The key is understanding the nuance, and what differentiates good distortion from bad distortion, and you don't learn that without listening to a lot of it.
The same can be said with compressors. If you don't understand how to make a compressor do "it's thing", it'll all just sound like squashing. Sure, some people like to complete squash the signal, but that's not where compressors shine. A compressor is like an instrument, you need to figure out how to set it to make it do "it's thing" - use it like an instrument, and become intimately familiar with how powerful it can be when you set it right.
Sure, a compressor can be used to clean up sloppy dynamics, but if that's the only way you know how to use it, you're missing out on a lot. It's just like people who say that people who use effects on guitar are only trying to cover up sloppiness. I guess some people do that, but if that's all you think effects are good for, you're missing a world of magic.
Before you dismiss compressors as "they just rob me of my sound", get to know some good quality compressors, and more importantly - how to use them properly to do all sorts of interesting things.
They can help you sit in the mix, they can help increase the punch in your sound, they can help you fatten your tone, they can help bring up "low level sounds" like fret noise and clank and growl without changing the peak dynamics at all (this is used in vocal recording all the time) - ie increase the "character" of the sound.... all without squashing your dynamics.
When I first discovered guitar distortion, I thought that anything that made a fzzzzzz sound on the guitar was good.... hey, it was distorted. But as you learn and listen, you start to realize that there is good distortion & bad distortion. Bad distortion takes away all the dynamics from the guitar (because many of them are basically hard clipping limiters), and makes it so none of the character of the guitar actually makes it through. The key is understanding the nuance, and what differentiates good distortion from bad distortion, and you don't learn that without listening to a lot of it.
The same can be said with compressors. If you don't understand how to make a compressor do "it's thing", it'll all just sound like squashing. Sure, some people like to complete squash the signal, but that's not where compressors shine. A compressor is like an instrument, you need to figure out how to set it to make it do "it's thing" - use it like an instrument, and become intimately familiar with how powerful it can be when you set it right.
Sure, a compressor can be used to clean up sloppy dynamics, but if that's the only way you know how to use it, you're missing out on a lot. It's just like people who say that people who use effects on guitar are only trying to cover up sloppiness. I guess some people do that, but if that's all you think effects are good for, you're missing a world of magic.
Before you dismiss compressors as "they just rob me of my sound", get to know some good quality compressors, and more importantly - how to use them properly to do all sorts of interesting things.
They can help you sit in the mix, they can help increase the punch in your sound, they can help you fatten your tone, they can help bring up "low level sounds" like fret noise and clank and growl without changing the peak dynamics at all (this is used in vocal recording all the time) - ie increase the "character" of the sound.... all without squashing your dynamics.
Ok mactac, read what you wrote: help > sit in the mix > Increase the punch > fatten your tone > bring up "low level sounds" like > fret noise > clank and growl > without changing the peak dynamics at all > Increase the "character "of the sound .... all without (or "and") squashing your dynamics.
This has a name: changes in the original character of the sound. To me, IMO, destroy the original dynamics with which the instrument was played. As I had already agreed, is a great tool, a great effect too, really, almost like an instrument (other), but fortunately not all people are forced to use. And fix a lot things in the studios, and this is not a discussion, it's just ours opinions. All the best.
This has a name: changes in the original character of the sound. To me, IMO, destroy the original dynamics with which the instrument was played. As I had already agreed, is a great tool, a great effect too, really, almost like an instrument (other), but fortunately not all people are forced to use. And fix a lot things in the studios, and this is not a discussion, it's just ours opinions. All the best.
When playing music to other people, the original character is what they hear in the mix. Whatever happens before it shouldn't matter much, since only the production team hears that. Thus, using whatever tools available to make the best possible product, whether live on stage or in the studio, is much more important to me. Of course, it also depends on the genre in question and the number of instruments, but most of the time you can improve the mix without anyone knowing a compressor was even used, if you want to.
When people broadly state that the use of ANY compressor Destroys the dynamics of a bass line, the compressor is either being over-used or misused.
And Cheap compressors can be very difficult to get to produce good results.
Compressors have been used for decades in the studio to produce CLASSIC bass lines where the dynamics are far from Destroyed.
Also, Bongomania's link above is EXCELLENT reading.
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Not all compressors are the same. They have different ways of doing the job, just like with any other effects. Also, like as been said, knowing how to use one is important for good tone.
For you two guys who also do not accept that someone who knows very well compressors, for more than 30 years, and already tired of using them in the studio, do not like to use them on bass.
1 - Read my post 26 If they had read not write nonsense (this is not an offense).
2 - Replace the word destroy to change, if it annoys them so much. Sometimes it's hard for, because my bad English to make myself clear.
Cheers.
Almost every commercial recording you've heard uses some type of compression on the bass eventually, whether it's when recording, when mixing, mastering, or due to the tape. There is also compression in your speakers. If you've ever used a tube amp, there's compression in that.
Are you honestly saying that you don't like how any of that affects the sound & that you are unhappy with the bass sound on almost every commercial recording?
I looked at your profile, and you like: Jeff Berlin, Brian Bromberg, Marcus Miller, Jaco, Victor Wooten, and varios 70's classic rock bass players.
Almost every recording made by these people has some sort of compression on the bass.
If you like all of those, but don't like compression on your bass in any way, you're using it wrong.
Of course: Marleaux Diva 5 > A cheap Zoom MS-60B with a little detune (0 shifter, fine +6)> + A very cheap and old Zoom B2 with little delay (like 15> 20ms, pedal does not Indicate) > Tone Hammer Preamp> Roland 120XL combo.
You can listen a one of my home recording here (Invalid Link Removed), choose Audio. It's a home recording with a cheap mic AKG P-2 > M-Audio interface Mobile 2+2 > Logic Pro, monitor: Headphones. Or in my signature, in my Soundclouds are just home recordings, and many of them there are compressors, plugins. Are just demos and pre productions, there's nothing professional, but have very good things. Home recordings, you know.
Cheers
If you've used compressors and are familiar with their operation and personally just don't care to use compressors at all - fine - no problem.
The unfortunate choice of the word Destroy led me to believe that you were in the relatively large camp of users at TB who, for whatever reason, either obviously don't know how to effectively use a compressor or choose not to spend the money for one with reasonable performance. That broad lack of operational knowledge is evidenced in numerous threads by users' statements/attitudes and, in particular, their questions re: operation/basic settings of compressors.
And apparently you're not in that group.
However, there's a difference between someone stating they Prefer not to use compression and stating that compression has a negative effect in ALL instances.
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And you think I do not know that? You are not reading my posts? Do not treat me like an idiot, I wrote that just do not like and do not use compressors in my setup of bass. It was not me who started talking about recordings and studios.
I playing guitar since 1973, I playing Hammond organ, Hammonds and Leslies do not compress? And you think I do not know? I've used all the tube amps you can imagine, I know they compress, Tone Hammer compress a lot! I'll stop this useless discussion, forums are to learn, exchange ideas, not to fight because of preferences or different points of view.
I have a lot of experience, and my "focus" now is uprights, to play uprights is very difficult for me yet, uprights are acoustic instruments you learn without amplification, now I'll practice a bit and think about how I will compress the uprights without amplification.
All the best to all of you guys.
