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What Happened to all the SX Love?

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#161
ProfGumby said:
I also don't think the thread about the CS bass is that relevant here either. A CS is not an MIA
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I posted that because of Lucas consistently saying (at the time) that a higher price equaled getting a better bass, and it does not. Even the Custom Shop makes mistakes and has duds. I like Fender and have a few now, and have owned various models of Fender basses and guitars for 30+ years now.

If I understand correctly, Lucas's experience is with used SX's that he ran across in a shop. I think those were likely duds, or the owners would have kept them since the brand doesn't carry a lot of monetary value.

Since I'm not going to ship him one of mine to play..., and because he feels so strongly against the hype, I invite him to buy a nice new SX, with the intention of sending it back for a full refund, and give it a review and post said review here on TB. Just send it back when you finish and no harm done, but I wouldn't be surprised if you kept it as a backup for your MIA.
 
#163
aborgman said:
A free in a happy meal quartz digital watch keeps time orders of magnitude better than any mechanical movement watch, regardless of cost.

So not even a Timex - just a cheapy $0.25 giveaway watch.
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My point exactly.

Not that I wouldn't LOVE to have a Rolex, but if you buy it just to keep time, you probably got ripped off.
 
#164
Perhaps the long term quality of these basses have caught up with the hype? I more or less see these as 'mess around' basses as the six or so that I've tried I can't say that id recommend as good starter instruments. They all
Had major setup issues to overcome and a few had scratchy pots and were quite thin sounding (bad batch?). Of course all of these things can be overcome but it might turn a first timer who hasn't had a chance to get an idea that all basses aren't alike off from playing entirely. IMO, not really worth the low cost.
 
#165
lucas vigor said:
Fill out your profile, then I will take what YOU just wrote seriously.

99%? Maybe I should clarify what I meant. Let's say 100% of PRO players use quality instruments. I base this on 1000 years of bass player magazine photos and other photos of PRO player NOT routinely using SX basses. There is plenty of photographic evidence to prove my point. But, a kool-aid drinker like you would never admit it, right?

The SX phenomena is restricted to amateur and semi-pro players on internet forums. Not in the real world.


And before you waste my time, don't bother to scrounge up ONE picture or maybe a couple of pictures of Richard Bona or Victor Wooten or Rocco Prestia playing an SX....there are far too many pictures I could post that would show PROs playing quality instruments...AND WE DON'T HAVE THE BANDWIDTH!


And maybe the supposed "experts" on this forum (and there certainly appear to be a LOT of those around here!) can't tell the difference between good instruments and bad instruments in these supposedly unbiased A/B youtube or soundclip tests.....but I can, and I am NOT even an expert!

I have already wasted too much time trying to explain to posters just like you, what a good bass feels and sounds like when you personally play it...but unfortunately, it's like trying to explain the difference between an excellent, craft beer and a regular, american beer....if you only like Bud and Miller lite, you will NEVER understand the difference. In fact, you won't probably like some 10 dollar bottle of beer made by trappist monks...you would not understand what you were drinking...so of course you can't tell the difference sonically between an SX and a Fodera.
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Did I ask you to take me seriously? No, I suggested that YOU take YOU seriously. You are just running your mouth (keyboard) without any thought or logic. It's just a bunch of repeated dogma that you seemed to have picked up over the years. Didn't you ever actually pay attention to what was going on around you?

First let's get logical for a second, shall we? What do you mean by "pro player". I assume that this means a person who makes their living playing bass. You seem to think that to be a "pro" you have to have pictures in Bass Player magazine and be pulling down huge bread. Hint. There are lots of "pro players" who play dive bars from time to time and have never had a picture in Bass Player. The fact that semi-pro players also may do this or that amateur players may play their bedroom is irrelevant. Presumably a semi-pro player also has a day job. And that may or may not mean they can afford any instrument they choose...depending on the job.

Your idea of a "pro player" seems to really mean a "name player". Someone who DOES make the pages of the magazines, who has enough cash to have any custom built instrument they wish and who has a collection of 3,000 basses and ALSO (this is important) is concerned about their IMAGE, because part of their popularity is based upon that.

Well, sure If I'm having a cow over my image I'll wear a hairpiece when I get old always be sure my outfit supports it as well as my instrument. My INCOME may depend on that.

So your idea is that if I come up with ONE picture of Victor playing an SX you won't accept that. If I show you a bass inventory list of a "pro player's" collection that has SX basses in there, you reject that as??? As what? As simple denial because in your mind you get what you pay for? You are simply wrong! Tone is where you find it. Music is ART and in art there are no rules. As soon as you show me a rule, I'll show you a valid exception! Hey, all those old Fenders were JUNK back when I played them. Stamped bridge. Hum. Heavy. etc. They were for kids. My upright was what most "pros" played. Now people are falling all over themselves to have an ancient Fender and paying fortunes for them. What changed? Just opinion.

So if I see a "pro player" playing an ancient beat up Fender, I say they are playing "Junk". Yet you argue they are playing a "great bass". Who is right? We are both right in a sense. It's just about point of view. Which is what opinion means. Tone (music) is where you find it.

And I can't give you my opinion on a Fodera because I've never owned or even played one. And I haven't been a "pro player" for many years now. So apparently you argue that that means I can't tell the difference between my Modulus, Ken Smith, Alembic, G&L, Carvin etc. and my 5 (count-em) Essex Basses. Right, I have absolutely NO idea what a pricey bass is or what it feels like to play one.

And there is a reason: I've never played the "ultimate". No I"m not talking Ritter or Fedora, I'm talking a Kala U-bass Ukelele! Which you, as a pro expert, have assured us is the ultimate "great" bass. Got any photos of Wooten playing a bass ukelele? I know nothing. ;)
 
#166
lucas vigor said:
It's more then just the name on the headstock or the fine furniture look....it's quality built product. An SX is an ok product, not really terrible but definitely not great, either..and to insist that it does the job just as well as a bass that costs fundamentally and epically more, is an insult to the high end luthiers.
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Get your head on straight! What does "does the job" mean? You obviously have a pre-conceived notion of what "job" a bass is supposed to do. I'm telling you that IF it fits the music, an old piano wire nailed to the side of the house does the "job". Obviously you wish to turn around your dogma that "great players have great basses" and have us believe that therefore you are a great player simply BECAUSE you own an expensive bass. You've been reading too many instrument manufacturer advertisements!

If weird AL has a hit playing a suitcase instead of a DW drumset, does that mean he's not a pro? The suitcase had the sound he needed. The DW drumset did not. What any of us choose to play for any given song can't possibly be any insult to any luthier! You really have a messed up philosophy.
 
#167
lucas vigor said:
As with most internet forums, you have posters that have 5000 posts and have been here for years. Their celebrity is not based on talent or skill level on the bass, but talent and skill in internet forum writing, and sheer persistence. Whatever they say seems like the absolute truth, and since others on the forum look up to them and support them, it generates this massive but fake "groundswell" of support for a product or idea.

SX is the prime example. Yes, they are a pretty good deal for a beginner bassist who is looking to get started on bass without spending a huge amount. The bass will be playable, for sure. Also, the SX is just great for the amateur hobbyist luthier who wants to mod the heck out of something without spending a fortune on the platform...

but let's get realistic here. The massive amount of hype surrounding SX bassists on this forum and ONLY on this forum was really far fetched. Statements had been made here that they are just as good as the vintage pre-CBS basses used by the pros, and that in a side by side test no one can tell the difference in tone at all. Posters also said that despite owning top-of the line basses, the SX was their main gigging and recording bass!

This was seriously said right here on this forum!

All of this despite the mountain of photographic evidence that shows pros playing non-SX basses routinely!

If what the posters here said was true, you would expect more pros to be playing them. Where is the evidence of that outside THIS forum?

My take on the whole SX thing was that SX was like a code word:

A way of saying "I am such a red hot bassist that I can take ANY bass, even a 130 dollar beginner bass, and make it sound great BECAUSE I am so good!"

That's what I think the whole SX thing was really about. A way of bragging, a way of crowing. It had nothing to do with the actual bass. This was just massive Kool-aid drinking, and you know what? It really was only on this forum!

Yes, I have played an SX bass. Several times. Some were just slightly worse or slightly better then the Squire or the MIM Fenders. I give them credit for that at least....but they don't hold a candle to my MIA or MIJ fenders, nor my Carvin, not even to the cheap-ass Ibanez I played on 25 years ago.

So, I never bought into the hype, seeing it fully for what it was. I took a lot of flack and flames for this standpoint, with only a few supporting me....but then again, I am not some famous internet warrior with a legion of groupies!


set 3 by Lucas Vigor on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free








That's not what I asked.


You probably have not spent time with a fine quality instrument, so your opinion is unfortunately biased when it comes to SX basses.


I don't need to really continue this. The proof is in the pictures. The pros do not play them. And no, it is not because pros are given free high end basses to play, or would otherwise just play an SX or other bargain bass.


This has nothing to do with status, but funny you mention it, because it basically reinforces my theory that SX is all about proving that the SX kool-aid drinkers are just trying to prove how great on the bass they are.

Last year, I went into a store and played a Pedulla. I sat there for two hours with the thing, seriously not wanting to let it go. I don't care what name was on the headstock, but the bass was clearly one of the finest built and finest sounding machines I have ever touched. The feel, silken, the sound, AMAZING! This was no SX. And it was used. They wanted 600 bucks for it, and I was too stupid to grab it on the spot. It was gone two days later. yes, I could have bought 4 SX basses for the same price, but all 4 together would not match the quality of this instrument.

I know that you really want your SX to be as good as the Pedulla, but it's just not true.

I am not above admitting that I sound great on a high-end bass, and I don't sound as good on the bargain bass. I don't play as well. I don't attempt certain things because they don't sound as articulate or clear. The punch is not there. The burnished, golden tones are not there. The ease of motion is not there. I am not inspired and it has nothing to do with status or what is on the headstock. it has much more to do with a bass lovingly constructed and designed with quality parts and wood versus a green piece of inferior wood made by a 12 year old indonesian kid in some asian sweatshop.

And if that makes me a bad musician or a poor craftsman, so be it.


set 3 by Lucas Vigor on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Click to expand...

Appeal to tradition fallacy with a bit of appeal to authority thrown in for good measure.
 
#168
I love my SX's!

SXJBass1web.jpg


P.S.
Stop feeding the trolls.
 
#172
martyman5000 said:
I've learned from this site that if you give a thousand reasons why someone should not buy something they will buy it anyways. Rondo bass is great bass if you're starting out and just want something to bang on or mod but really its just a cheap bass.
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It's just a cheap bass that gets the job done and done very well. Great bang for the buck.
 
#173
I got a CV 60s Jazz bass about 2 years ago as I never really played much on a jazz much less own one so I decided to get one. I hated the way it sounded so much that I never played it and traded it off. Earlier this year the SX ursa jazz with ash body kind of caught my eye so I bought it and that thing plays and sounds amazing. I have played earlier model sx basses with the old head stock and quite frankly thought that they were aweful, but this thing is awesome. Yes I have played and owned expensive basses, mostly Fender, but I had to sell everything when finances got tight. I can't see any reason to spend that much money on an expensive bass as long as these are around. No I haven't had to do any mods to my ursa, it is all stock. I don't like the headstock, but I don't play the headstock and I have seen basses with uglier appointments than the ursa.
 
#174
martyman5000 said:
Rondo bass is great bass if you're starting out and just want something to bang on or mod but really its just a cheap bass.
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OK. I happen to love cheap basses! I'm not mad at people for calling em beginner basses or mod basses, I don't buy my basses for the approval of others.

That said I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who said music is art, and the best tool for musical art is the one that gives you what you need. Strads (yes, the violin) do NOT have the sweetest tone, but they are louder than the ones that do.

My experiences with my SXes have taught me many lessons about what small changes to a bass can do, and if ONLY for that they have been worth what I paid for them many times over. But on top of that, they help me make music, my music.

This type of discussion really will never change anybody. The only chance there is of that is a LIVE blind listening AND playing test. Who's game???
 
#175
mongo2 said:
It's just a cheap bass that gets the job done and done very well. Great bang for the buck.
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You could say the same thing about this...

Walmart.com: Silvertone Revolver Bass Guitar Package with Instructional DVD, Vintage Sunburst: Music Instruments & Karaoke



a very good buy, 12/07/2010
the bass guitar is awsome ,amp sweet a. Good guitar the tuner was not silver it was black .The neck was bent but easy to fix
Product Attributes:
Value
Meets Expectations
2 of 2 found this review helpful.
 
#176
martyman5000 said:
You could say the same thing about this...

Walmart.com: Silvertone Revolver Bass Guitar Package with Instructional DVD, Vintage Sunburst: Music Instruments & Karaoke



a very good buy, 12/07/2010
the bass guitar is awsome ,amp sweet a. Good guitar the tuner was not silver it was black .The neck was bent but easy to fix
Product Attributes:
Value
Meets Expectations
2 of 2 found this review helpful.
Click to expand...
Nah! That's $70 more than I paid for my SX. I like my bass being cheaper than my strap.
 
#177
martyman5000 said:
You could say the same thing about this...
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Not really since I've never owned or tried one. I'd never pass judgement on an instrument I haven't spent considerable time with.

I have owned 2 SX basses for over a year so my statement stands. Add to that the positive experiences of others here and it's not hard to see a trend. The negative pronouncements of a few really doesn't make much of a dent in that.
 
#178
Here is one thing I just don't understand. I like Fender P basses and no matter what anyone tells me its all I like and will buy. Now, If Fender started making them everything the same as before except they introduced an ugly butt headstock...would I quit buying them ?
Not me...I don't play the headstock even thou I might not love the new one its still the tone and feel that counts. So they say its the SX headstock that killed it. I say it was Squier myself..better bass for in most cases for only a few more dollars.
 
#179
bassbully said:
Here is one thing I just don't understand. I like Fender P basses and no matter what anyone tells me its all I like and will buy. Now, If Fender started making them everything the same as before except they introduced an ugly butt headstock...would I quit buying them ?
Not me...I don't play the headstock even thou I might not love the new one its still the tone and feel that counts. So they say its the SX headstock that killed it. I say it was Squier myself..better bass for in most cases for only a few more dollars.
Click to expand...

And for me the opposite is true...I truly can't stand the URSA headstock, and that is why I have not bought a new SX...but I have picked up 5 old headstock necks that I can use to fix that problem when I do buy one ;).
If Fender did change the headstock to some lame, pointed, "arrow" style thing, then yes I would have to say that it would bother me enough that I would not buy another one (and I doubt I would be the only one). I don't believe Squier basses have anything to do with the decline in SX popularity at all...I agree that it is the headstock change completely.
I have 5 SX's, and I have one Squier :p
 
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