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What Happened to all the SX Love?
- Thread starter bassbully
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That's just not true. I've seen plenty of product comparisons of all types of products from kitchen items to mattresses to electronics equipment, and the most expensive items does not always come out on top. More often than not, it's the item that is a good deal cheaper than the most expensive one comes out on top. Cost is sometimes an indicator of good quality, but it is certanly NOT a guarantee.
Most expensive does not always equal best, and conversely, cheapest does not always equal worst.
Yeah, well maybe I should bow out of the convo right here because I'm just a knock around player so I probably wouldn't know a pro quality rig even if it sat on my face.
I do know that after I got my MiM, a glorious real life FENDER that I had always wanted, after a few months I was modding it and I'm still not all that happy with it especially after getting the Rondo and was like damn this plays great (hum aside) so why did I spend all that money on the MiM with upgrades (all of which are touted as super amazing here on the board)??
Well, of course, its because I'm not an accomplished player. I need to practice more, get more time with my buddies in a band situation and less time dinking around with my tool. And yes that last part can be taken in every way.
So almost like a flip of your original point, I mediocre player can take a good bass down a few notches just like a bad bass could take a good player down. Or something like that.
Well, I like your honesty. But let me tell you something (and I do teach bass, by the way, as well as take lessons myself) a high quality instrument is a total joy to play. Once in your hands, you don't want to put it down. It makes you play longer and practice more. This is what worked for me, when I was just starting, years ago. I started on the ********* bass possible, a fender copy so bad it did not even have a name on the headstock! But once I moved up (Aria pro 2 was my second bass) I found myself pulling off stuff I really could not before, and the funny thing is, the Aria was also a split coil, one PUP passive 4 string, same as my first bass was. The Aria was not even pro quality (despite the name) but is sounded soooooo much better! As a result, I was playing it more and attempting the kind of licks, riffs and patterns that never sounded as good on my first bass....
I am not the best bassist around, of course, but I have played bass for 1000 years it seems, and you just have to trust me...a great bass makes a big difference, and that is why 99% of the great players play great basses!
F ride by Lucas Vigor on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Hey, nothing is a guarantee, but I do think that cost is generally an indicator of quality in most cases. Not all the times, of course. Harley Davidson's are very expensive, and unless you know a HELL of a lot about motorcycle repair...you will be dissapointed! Yet the cheaper Honda, kawasaki or even BMW will be more reliable, better riding, etc...
^
This. I have owned pricey basses. I've borrowed basses from friends. Had access to a Fodera for a month, and had a Sadowsky in my possesion for over 6 months. I've personally owned several Fenders. I still sound like me. I mean I could go out and buy those new $350 shoes to gain 1/4" on my vertical leap, but I don't need it. And most people wouldn't notice the difference anyway. In my book it's not worth it. That should be good enough. If you're willing to spend it, then more power to you. I ain't mad at you for it. I hope you're not mad at me because I don't agree with you. Whether it's a huge difference or not to you doesn't matter. It's your money. Myself I don't sense the huge gap that you do. With some adjustments(most cost me nothing) I end up with a good or great playing bass that more than meets the need. No kool aid drinking here on the SX side nor the price gets me everything side.
I'll take your word for it. Though, there are guys on here (Dark Horse comes to mind) that rock whatever is at hand.
Right now, I'm having fun putting together a Warmoth Jazz over time as I save up money. In the meantime I gotta say the Rondo is treating me good enough for what I do.
Later!
Tell you guys what: If you want the best, most incredible mind blowing bass music deal going right now, check out the Kala U-Bass!
When I first saw it in a store, my first thought was that there was no way it would sound or play good.
After playing a 3 hour gig with one, and having it basically sound almost as good as my upright (amplified) I was amazed at how wrong I was.
F ride by Lucas Vigor on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
When I first saw it in a store, my first thought was that there was no way it would sound or play good.
After playing a 3 hour gig with one, and having it basically sound almost as good as my upright (amplified) I was amazed at how wrong I was.
F ride by Lucas Vigor on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
I don't think you get it. Go to Ikea sometime. Very nice stuff for the money, but no where near the quality of solid wood.
There has definitely been some hype. I have sung the praises of my SX stuff on forums before, but I HAVE seen people say things like "I bought this SX for $125 and it blows away every $1500 MIA Fender I've ever played!"
That, of course, is silly.
However, I think a lot of the hype is due to the fact that people ave been able to find very decent, well-made instruments at a very low cost these days. I've played bass and guitar for over 30 years. I have lived all over the country. I have owned and played many high-dollar and vintage instruments over the years.
A couple of decades and more ago, cheap Asian-made instruments werre typically junk. That is no longer true. For several reasons, you can pick up an off-brand or copy that is more often than not really playable and decent. I feel that the availability and ease of purchase and affordability of such instruments in large part leads to the hype. But beneath the hype is a mountain of legitimate reviews and criticisms of lower-tier instruments, including Rondo's offerings as well as other brands.
Now, here you couldn't be more wrong. There are several online musicians forums where you will find people "crowing" about their SX guitars and basses. I have been on many myself. Strat-Talk, TDPRI, Harmony Central, Last Bass Outpost, even The Gear Page, and others. While you will find some hype and overblown statements on all of these, and you will also find some people speaking about how the SX guitar or bass they bought happened to be crud, what you'll find a LOT more of is people discussing how impressed they were with what they got for low money when they decided to plunk down some coin for an inexpensive SX.
In short, your statements that this is the only forum where there has been a lot of high-falutin' SX talk, that people who find SX gear to be of good, giggable quality, and that people who speak highly of SX stuff are just pretenders or people who don't know a "good" instrument from a "bad" one are, in themselves, nothing but hype.
You are entitled to your opinions, and I absolutely believe that you found a wide gulf in quality between the SXs you've tried and the MIJs and MIAs, etc. you own or have played. But you seem to be judging/encapsulatng pretty much everyone else's opinions about SX as ignorant or nothing but hype. I strongly disagree.
My SX P has a P-bass body shape made of decent wood. It has a (very nice, well-made and comfortable) Fender-ish neck. It has a great sonding stock pickup. The wiring is very likely of lower quality than what Fender uses. The bridge, tuners and nut are as well. However, all of those components are fully functional stock and as-is. You plug it into an amp, and play bass.
The bass is, in essence, some wood and wire and metal parts. Not rocket science. Obviously there will be variance between build and component quality from brand to brand, or from model to model within brands, or even from one example of a specific make and model to another made the same day in the same factory.
Speaking as someone who has owned and played some fine and pricey examples of vintage and high-end equipment and has hundreds of gigs under his belt, as well as a few recording sessions, I don't claim to be a red-hot bass master, but I can tell you that even though my SX doesn't measure up in many respects to, say, the pre-CBS Fender Ps and Js I've owned, I would gig it without shame and feel right at home playing an instrument that was solid, reliable and far more easy and inexpensive to replace.
I don't really give a **** what name is on the headstock or what any other "professional" or famous bass player or guitar player is playing. Those things don't even enter in to the criteria I take into account when purchasing a bass or when playing and enjoying one.
I also don't think the thread about the CS bass is that relevant here either. A CS is not an MIA....
I have had many SX basses and all were good instruments and I went and modded most of em for "just because". I was/am learning what makes these things tick, swapping this and that mostly for experience. That being said, aside from one bass with a dead pot all were good serviceable instruments.
And all the mods I did enhanced those already good basses.
I also have been duped in the audio comparison tests posted here. I have also stated that I have played SX side by side with Fenders of MIM and MIA level and have prefered some things about the SX more than the Fenders that day.
I would never call an SX level quality with an MIA (if I have I was either not clear or did not explain myself well. Feel free to call me on that) I have stated that I have played MIA basses with some cosmetic flaws or bad fret ends (most likely fret sprout) and played one MIA Fender that had a bridge pup rout that was 1/8 inch too wide on the g string side of the hole (1/8 inch wider than any other fender on the wall)
I don't know about where is the SX love, or if Rondo's sales are down. I hope not cause Kurt is a great guy to deal with.
But the facts, as I see it, are pretty much what you say Lucas, SX basses can be hit and miss, but I never pretty much had a miss, other than cosmetic. But what did I expect on a 109-149 dollar bass?
SX basses are far superior to what either of us had to chose from, or learned on in the 80's. Crap is the word to describe what was available in the entry level price point "back in the day" and it was worse in the 60's! We are spoiled now!
And I feel that you (Lucas or anyone) can play an SX and it would sound good to anyone listening, provided it was set up the way said player likes. Now whether or not the player liked the sound is a whole other enchilada!
You do get what you pay for, but in ANY price bracket, some are better than others and yet 15 different bass players will have 15 different opinions on lots of things pertaining to any bass.
Would I buy another SX? In a heartbeat, if so moved... Do I think I have arrived with a franken VM or a franken CV/Fender? No. There are other basses out there, better basses out there but as Lucas himself said about himself and a CS Fender, I am not worthy of some of them and some of them do not make sense for me to own right now when what I have fits the bill....
Does any of this make sense?
Well, let's look at this argument logically.
Same wood from the same tree. Same strings. Same electronics.
One bass is made in the USA, hand crafted by expert luthiers getting paid well for their highly skilled craft. The bass sells for $5000.
One bass is made in Indonesia, assembled by a machine, perfectly...every time. No human errors. No mistakes. No fatigue. No vacations. No sickness. No emotional distress. No hangovers. Nothing. Just a robot cranking out bass after bass after bass after bass. The guy running the machine lives below the poverty level and barely makes enough money to get a bowl of rice to eat. Bass sells for $150
Using the "more expensive is better" theory, the more expensive bass should be vastly better. If my math is correct, the $5000 bass should be 33x better.
Yes, I realize that electronics will be better in the $5000 bass. But this ain't 1950. Copper wound in a coil with some magnets isn't rocket science.
Expensive doesn't mean better. If that was the case, then I suppose a computer made in 1980 is VASTLY better than a cheap laptop you pick up from Wal-Mart today.
Some would argue that a Rolex is a superior watch to a Timex. Yet I'm willing to bet a quartz Timex would keep better time than a perpetual motion Rolex.
I should make it clear that I understand that higher dollar basses do offer better quality, but there is a tipping point....a law of diminishing return if you will. Is a $1500 MIA Fender THAT much better than an SX? Some say yes, but I'd bet that most musicians couldn't tell the difference between the two on a recording, and a layperson SURE as heck couldn't.
Same wood from the same tree. Same strings. Same electronics.
One bass is made in the USA, hand crafted by expert luthiers getting paid well for their highly skilled craft. The bass sells for $5000.
One bass is made in Indonesia, assembled by a machine, perfectly...every time. No human errors. No mistakes. No fatigue. No vacations. No sickness. No emotional distress. No hangovers. Nothing. Just a robot cranking out bass after bass after bass after bass. The guy running the machine lives below the poverty level and barely makes enough money to get a bowl of rice to eat. Bass sells for $150
Using the "more expensive is better" theory, the more expensive bass should be vastly better. If my math is correct, the $5000 bass should be 33x better.
Yes, I realize that electronics will be better in the $5000 bass. But this ain't 1950. Copper wound in a coil with some magnets isn't rocket science.
Expensive doesn't mean better. If that was the case, then I suppose a computer made in 1980 is VASTLY better than a cheap laptop you pick up from Wal-Mart today.
Some would argue that a Rolex is a superior watch to a Timex. Yet I'm willing to bet a quartz Timex would keep better time than a perpetual motion Rolex.
I should make it clear that I understand that higher dollar basses do offer better quality, but there is a tipping point....a law of diminishing return if you will. Is a $1500 MIA Fender THAT much better than an SX? Some say yes, but I'd bet that most musicians couldn't tell the difference between the two on a recording, and a layperson SURE as heck couldn't.
I think the SX hype has died down lately because Rondo has nothing new on their site right now. Rondo's selection is rather thin at the moment. I bet when they add some more models people will be talking about them more again. The headstock change didn't help but IMO it is not a deal breaker. I have done a couple of reshaping jobs on Ursa headstocks and thought they looked just fine.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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You are forgetting subjectivity here. First off, "high quality." Means different things to different people. Some people might play an SX or Squier and think "this is perfectly serviceable and does the job fine." Others might think "those are CRAP! You aren't playing a "real" bass unless you shell out more than a grand for a "real" Fender." Still others will tell you "an MIA Fender is fine UNTIL you get a $5000 boutique, custom job in your hands, THEN you'll realize what a truly good instrument is."
I think it's somewhat sad that you seem to be--across the board, speaking for everyone--making the claim that people don't know or understand the joys of playing bass unless they are playing one that fits your personal criteria for "high quality. That's nonsense, of course.
Lots of people find total joy in playing cheap basses, and plenty of us have played very expensive ones that weren't all that.
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