What if Leo didn't get it exactly right the first time around?

[Matt O]

For the past five years, I've been using vintage-inspired Fender Jazzes and Precisions exclusively. I believed in the adage that Leo got it right the first time around with the Jazz and the '57 Precision onwards.

Yesterday, I got a "modern" bass and couldn't believe how wrong Leo had been:

• Truss rod access requires having to remove the neck
• Tuners weight so much, resulting in serious neck dive
• Bridge requires strings go through it, which is mildly inconvenient when changing strings
• Threaded saddles causes smaller gauge strings to move move around
• Single coil hum (Jazz bass)
• 7.25-inch fingerboard radius, requiring more neck relief and so higher action
• Heel design makes it had to access last frets.

Also, when we say, "Leo got it right the first time around," we usually mean the '57 Precision, which isn't exactly the "first time around."

You could Leo created a bass that works in most if not all genres, but isn't that only because it was, for a while, the only bass available on the market, more or less? Would we say the same thing of the Warwick Thumb, for example, had it been the first bass on the market and played on all those classic records?

So, what exactly did Leo get right?

Now that you've outsmarted everyone, I'd recommend just finding a bass that works for you and playing it.

Edit: I look forward to seeing your non-Fender NBD threads, which I'll give a "like" whether or not I actually like your new bass. Idk, I just like seeing a proud new owner showing off their bass of choice to a bunch of bassists.

Also, thanks in advance for the next 24 hours of Fender hate / Fender love poop flinging. I see you're new here, you'll see this thread theme regularly if you stick around.

 

[edot3021]

For the past five years, I've been using vintage-inspired Fender Jazzes and Precisions exclusively. I believed in the adage that Leo got it right the first time around with the Jazz and the '57 Precision onwards.

Yesterday, I got a "modern" bass and couldn't believe how wrong Leo had been:

• Truss rod access requires having to remove the neck
• Tuners weight so much, resulting in serious neck dive
• Bridge requires strings go through it, which is mildly inconvenient when changing strings
• Threaded saddles causes smaller gauge strings to move move around
• Single coil hum (Jazz bass)
• 7.25-inch fingerboard radius, requiring more neck relief and so higher action
• Heel design makes it had to access last frets.

Also, when we say, "Leo got it right the first time around," we usually mean the '57 Precision, which isn't exactly the "first time around."

You could Leo created a bass that works in most if not all genres, but isn't that only because it was, for a while, the only bass available on the market, more or less? Would we say the same thing of the Warwick Thumb, for example, had it been the first bass on the market and played on all those classic records?

So, what exactly did Leo get right?

Tribalism is tribalism. Play what you like and what sounds good in the mix. Sometimes it's the bass you like, sometimes you have to pick up something else. It's fine.

 

[lermgalieu]

I am reminded of an ancient question posed by Microsoft: Why are manhole covers round? Answer: It doesn't matter why. It is a standard. Same for Leo. He may not have gotten there first, but he did set the standard.

That's a half truth, because things don't stay/become the standard unless they work and make some degree of sense. There actually is a reason that manhole covers are round, and therefore they became a standard.

 

[Turnaround]

I am reminded of an ancient question posed by Microsoft: Why are manhole covers round? Answer: It doesn't matter why.

Actually it does. A round manhole cover cannot fall into the manhole. Any other shape can.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Actually it does. A round manhole cover cannot fall into the manhole. Any other shape can.

I guess I'm not making myself clear: Once something becomes a standard, how and why it got that way becomes beside the point. Let's say Leo didn't get it exactly right. Does that really matter now? The Fender Precision and Fender Jazz have proved, as we all know, to be templates for many other makers.

 

[gln1955]

For the past five years, I've been using vintage-inspired Fender Jazzes and Precisions exclusively. I believed in the adage that Leo got it right the first time around with the Jazz and the '57 Precision onwards.

Yesterday, I got a "modern" bass and couldn't believe how wrong Leo had been:

• Truss rod access requires having to remove the neck
• Tuners weight so much, resulting in serious neck dive
• Bridge requires strings go through it, which is mildly inconvenient when changing strings
• Threaded saddles causes smaller gauge strings to move move around
• Single coil hum (Jazz bass)
• 7.25-inch fingerboard radius, requiring more neck relief and so higher action
• Heel design makes it had to access last frets.

Also, when we say, "Leo got it right the first time around," we usually mean the '57 Precision, which isn't exactly the "first time around."

You could Leo created a bass that works in most if not all genres, but isn't that only because it was, for a while, the only bass available on the market, more or less? Would we say the same thing of the Warwick Thumb, for example, had it been the first bass on the market and played on all those classic records?

So, what exactly did Leo get right?

There's no new revelation here. Everyone knows the quirks of Fender basses from all eras. People who like their Fenders don't care.

It doesn't change the fact that Leo did get it mostly right and created a practical bass guitar that has stood the test of time. What other manufactured product has changed so little in the past 60 years?

 

[Thumpin6string]

He got it right for what he had to work with at that time.

 

[jimmydean]

Bass players don't cry over little things like that , my good son .

 

[Koshchei]

For the past five years, I've been using vintage-inspired Fender Jazzes and Precisions exclusively. I believed in the adage that Leo got it right the first time around with the Jazz and the '57 Precision onwards.

Yesterday, I got a "modern" bass and couldn't believe how wrong Leo had been:

• Truss rod access requires having to remove the neck
• Tuners weight so much, resulting in serious neck dive
• Bridge requires strings go through it, which is mildly inconvenient when changing strings
• Threaded saddles causes smaller gauge strings to move move around
• Single coil hum (Jazz bass)
• 7.25-inch fingerboard radius, requiring more neck relief and so higher action
• Heel design makes it had to access last frets.

Also, when we say, "Leo got it right the first time around," we usually mean the '57 Precision, which isn't exactly the "first time around."

You could Leo created a bass that works in most if not all genres, but isn't that only because it was, for a while, the only bass available on the market, more or less? Would we say the same thing of the Warwick Thumb, for example, had it been the first bass on the market and played on all those classic records?

So, what exactly did Leo get right?

It was a good first iteration that managed to nail the user requirements in broad strokes: comfortable to play, could be transported inside the car (rather than on top of it), lower barrier to entry because it had frets, loud, and really durable.

That said, a refined modern bass is so much better than a FSO.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

For the past five years, I've been using vintage-inspired Fender Jazzes and Precisions exclusively. I believed in the adage that Leo got it right the first time around with the Jazz and the '57 Precision onwards.

Yesterday, I got a "modern" bass and couldn't believe how wrong Leo had been:

• Truss rod access requires having to remove the neck
• Tuners weight so much, resulting in serious neck dive
• Bridge requires strings go through it, which is mildly inconvenient when changing strings
• Threaded saddles causes smaller gauge strings to move move around
• Single coil hum (Jazz bass)
• 7.25-inch fingerboard radius, requiring more neck relief and so higher action
• Heel design makes it had to access last frets.

Also, when we say, "Leo got it right the first time around," we usually mean the '57 Precision, which isn't exactly the "first time around."

You could Leo created a bass that works in most if not all genres, but isn't that only because it was, for a while, the only bass available on the market, more or less? Would we say the same thing of the Warwick Thumb, for example, had it been the first bass on the market and played on all those classic records?

So, what exactly did Leo get right?

He got portability, playability, & amplify-ability, as compared to an upright bass, right. I think that was his primary goal. I don't think he was trying to come up with a good bass guitar design for the 2020s.

Neck removal to adjust truss rod? Upright players didn't notice. The worst setup on the early P-bass felt like a dream compared to an upright.

Heavy tuners & neck dive? Not an issue compared to upright unwieldiness.

String through bridge? Have you ever restrung an upright?

Threaded saddles & moving strings? An upright player would twist a piece of wire around the string and intonation adjustment screw and fix that.

7.25" radius? An upright player might think that was a little too flat for bowing, but all good for pizzicato….

Heel design hard for accessing high frets? Upright players can "thumb style" around that, no problem, but they aren't playing up there anyway.

Comparing a Ford Model T to a a Tesla Model S reveals Henry missed a couple things, but comparing a Ford Model T to a horse & buckboard makes Henry look like the Einstein of car design.

72 years later shows Leo had a pretty good pattern. You can at least play Dean Town on a '51 P-bass. You probably can't make a decent showing with a Ford Model T at LeMans, but it would do better that a horse & buggy….

 

[Stewie]

Yeah, he really screwed up in 57 when he gave up on the perfect headstock shape. I'd take a 56 over half a dozen 57s. Once the belly and forearm bevels arrived, In my eye he had it. They only hum because they don't know the words

 

[marchone]

Leo took a decade to learn from players what they liked and didn't. Then he produced the Fender Jazz Bass. That model became the basis for some of best bass guitars available today. Sadowsky et al.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Well .. ergonomics and shape of the basses aside .. but what do we say about the tone of a P-bass from 1957 onwards with the development and commercial debut of the split coil pickup at the location which was specifically devised by Leo Fender for that version of the instrument?
It seems we've all forgotten how good it sounds …

 

[Pdaddy1978]

What if Leo didn't get it right the first time?
Answer: Then his name would have been Leo Gibson...

 

[john_g]

Mmm... Spare ribs...

Ribs of sparey goodness!

Anywhoo...products evolve over time so the quirky things eventually get worked out. And maybe someone else wouldve come along that did the exact same thing if there was no Leo. But, your favorite bass from your favorite brand wouldnt "be" without Leo. Im not lathering up his glutes, but he set the blueprint for others to follow.

 

[logdrum]

Once again we overthink too much on TB. You can adjust the truss rod without taking it off even without a notch, you just may have to remove the pick guard. You use a smaller flat head.

Heel -- Unless you are soloist up there. I have medium hands and not a problem. There are young girls on YouTube who can solo up there. Bent bridge, yeah maybe. Some people like the smaller radius. Tuner head, that's a take on the upright bass design.

Leo got the basic design right. Everything is an improvement on it.

 

[FRoss6788]

I am reminded of an ancient question posed by Microsoft: Why are manhole covers round? Answer: It doesn't matter why. It is a standard. Same for Leo. He may not have gotten there first, but he did set the standard.

Manhole covers are round so there is no way for them to fall in the hole and kill someone, but I get your point.

 

[JRA]

the cat invented parts basses. what's not to like?!!

 

[stringthrough]

Yah, he only got real close, so let's bash him!

 

[Mastermold]

I'm a fan of Leo's basses and got a few pre-CBS Precisions that are still my favorites. I'm a Music Man fan too although mine is an Ernie Ball 5. G&L basses are great too, the L-2000 is perhaps the most versatile bass I've ever owned. All of my Leo basses are joys to play and make music with.