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What is a tilt EQ and how does it work? (Diamond BCP-1 Question)

I just ordered a Diamond BCP-1 compressor and I keep reading about the tilt EQ feature. I'm not really sure what this is and how it works, i.e., how should I be setting it. I don't have the compressor in hand yet, and I don't have a lot of experience with compressors either.


Thanks for any input!


Michael
 
If you turn it one way it increases treble boost but cuts bass proportionately. If you turn it the other way, it does the reverse. it's a bit like having a single Bass and treble knobs hard wired in reverse to each other. Turn one, the other turns the other way.

Thanks, so 12:00 would be where I would want to start the knob and adjust from there? Does the EQ switch pick the center frequency that it starts from?


Michael
 
It should be noted that even in neutral (12:00) there's some EQ going on. See this post by the guy who invented it (I believe the Diamond is a clone of the no-longer available Submarine).

Review: Electronix Submarine | TalkBass.com

The Diamond is not a clone of the Submarine. The guy that designed the Submarine did not invent tilt EQ. And in a proper tilt EQ circuit there is no EQ in the 12:00 position (flat-line).

-Frank
 
The Diamond is not a clone of the Submarine. The guy that designed the Submarine did not invent tilt EQ. And in a proper tilt EQ circuit there is no EQ in the 12:00 position (flat-line).

-Frank
Besides, the Diamond is a compressor, the Sub is not.

I should just learn to keep my mouth shut when people more knowledgeable than me have already weighed in.
 
OTOH there can still be tonal coloration even when the EQ is flat. And I didn't do a "proper" thorough RTA of the Diamond, so I can't swear it was flat at 12:00.

Worth noting though that the Diamond has an internal switch that defeats the EQ completely.

On the specs page for my pedal is a graph showing flat EQ with the tilting EQ at noon: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
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The Diamond's tilt EQ at 12:00 is flat per SPICE simulations.

The Diamond's audio path is also designed with an audiophile mindset... with very low noise discrete transistor buffers, hi-end opamps and parallel (large/small) AC coupling capacitors to improve transient response. There was a lot of thought put into keeping the audio signal path pure and noise free. Very impressive!:thumbsup:

-Frank
 
I just found this graph that shows the Diamonds tilt EQ response for the 900Hz center point:

eq_tilt_curve.gif


Ignore the phase rotations shown on the right hand vertical axis, because those numbers are wrong. The maximum phase rotation deviations occur at both ends of the potentiometer and are approx +/-40 degrees from the phase seen at the control's 12:00 position. Since the tilt EQ is designed around an inverting amplifier configuration, the 12:00 position will be 180 deg out-of-phase with its input signal.

This is a standard tilt EQ circuit with the maximum +/-6dB shelving boost and cut.

On the specs page for my pedal is a graph showing flat EQ with the tilting EQ at noon: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Your Smoothie plot shows A LOT more cut range than the standard tilt EQ. Are you using a dual-ganged pot with each pot segment controlling its own filter and range? It is a very interesting and aggressive tilt EQ response.

-Frank
 
With all respect of course Frank, so far what you've posted are simulations or calculations based on published specs or an ideal case. In my testing of pedals, both before and after changing my methods from "chirp" to white noise, I've seen a very wide range of behaviors from different tilting EQs, even though they are nominally the same thing. Your question about the specific components used underlines this point. :)
 
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Respect to you also, man. :thumbsup:

Over the years, I have really learned to have a lot of faith in “standard” circuits. These standard circuits and their associated math have been proven to be very solid time after time. All of the standard circuits that I have worked with, test nearly exactly to how they were calculated or simulated. There are, of course, other factors that can skew measured results from the calculations; like active circuit stress with improper resistive or reactive loads, interference or oscillations caused by adjacent circuitry, power supply limitations and PCB layouts are also important. So, there are many variables can cause measured results to vary from the calculated circuit performance (including the test equipment used), but the SPICE simulators of today can take most of those circuit variables into account and allow you to find where the weak link is most of the time. A lot of these simulators can also calculate circuit variances due to ambient temperature changes... very cool stuff! You just have to be diligent to put real life limitations and parameters into the circuit simulations where necessary and to know/understand the device data sheets and design well within those parameters. The only times I have had significant variations with actual circuits and their equivalent SPICE simulations, is when I have designed up to or beyond the operational limits of active devices (so that would be my dummy-head fault, not the circuit itself)…. or with MOSFET’s. I have never been able to successfully simulate MOSFET circuits directly without adding extra ‘fudge’ circuitry into the simulation. After running into discrepancies with these MOSFET circuits, I read that SPICE simulators have issues with some MOSFET circuits. So I do not trust any simulations of MOSFET circuitry now without actual physical verification.

This tilt EQ in the Diamond is a textbook “standard”. When looking at the tilt circuit and the circuits that proceed and follow it, I can see nothing that would skew its measured results from the calculated and simulated results. I am so confident of it, that I will wager a free pedal or a kitten to be proven wrong.:D

The reason that I asked about the Smoothie using a dual-ganged pot for the tilt control, is because of the cut response in your plot. A “standard” tilt-EQ only has a maximum 6dB shelving boost/cut by design and uses a single gang pot. I have built a pseudo tilt EQ control that used a dual-ganged pot with a heavily modified two-band Baxandall circuit that has a similar cut response to your Smoothie plot. But, although it operated similarly to a one control tilt EQ, it really was just a one control (dual-ganged) modified Bax EQ. :)

-Frank
 
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I have a Diamond comp that I use with my acoustic guitar. The manual states that the tilt EQ is flat when in the center detent position. It's a really nice compressor. It does flip the phase when the EQ is engaged and maybe that is the "tonal" difference that is perceived when the internal switch is changed to bypass the EQ. I guess I could bring it in and check it on the FFT but I'll take Diamond's word for it. I think the tilt EQ is pretty cool.
 
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Check this out is you want to get an idea (as @bongomania noted, simulation and reality are not always quite the same) of how the various EQ stacks function and the effects of changing component values.

TSC

That's a nice calculator, but it's not a simulator. I haven't downloaded it, but it looks like all of the tone circuits are passive. It also allows you to change the source impedance of the signal source, which will change the results of the EQ curves. That it calculates the affect of different source impedance's with the tone stack shows that outside influences do make a difference... that was never in question. The only way to see if calculated and simulated are not the same as reality is to physically take actual measurements.

All electronic circuits are representations of mathematical functions. If there are discrepancies between the calculated/simulated with the actual physical measurements, then something was not included or overlooked with those calculations and simulations.:)

-Frank
 
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The inclusion of the EQ bypass switch inside the compressor reinforces the audiophile mindset of the designer. Audiophiles believe that the less circuitry that the signal has to pass thru is better. Which is correct, if signal purity is the end goal. And if you are not going to use the EQ then it makes sense to just eliminate that circuitry from the signal path.

Most designers will say that the larger value capacitors in parallel with a tiny value capacitors makes no sense for passing audio signals from one circuit block to another. But the Diamond has all of the AC coupling capacitors paralleled in this manner (larger value with a tiny value). Many audiophiles will debate this AC coupling method until they are blue in the face.:) Personally I would never hear the difference, but I respect that under certain testing conditions (usually with non-audio square wave and impulse testing) there can be a slight improvement in measurements observed. Whether those slight differences are audible or not is where those debates are centered around.

-Frank
 
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