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Double Bass What is it with Bluegrass players?
- Thread starter Wings
- Start date
There's very much a similar 'Trad Police' deal in Ireland with our celtic music.
At least with bluegrass there's the option of Double Bass...
That said, bands like Moving Hearts and TV series like The Transatlantic Sessions have gone a huge way towards bringing a decent low-end to the genre...
Love that Transatlantic stuff. Danny Thompson is my favorite. Would love to get to play that stuff. Looking forward to checking out Moving Hearts in a little bit.
I find slap useful, particularly for taking a solo, or as a comping tool for an instrument like the banjo that's on the louder end of the dynamic range. The only time I've ever been asked to chill on it would be palm slaps on the 2 and the 4, because the mandolin player usually wants that territory to comp on.
See my comments above. The fact that some bands like and use electric instruments in a bluegrass setting does not negate the right of other bands and jam sessions to exclude them.
I am not a microphone nerd, but it seems completely reasonable to me that particular groups prefer to cluster around a single microphone. There is a certain amount of interplay and - for lack of a better word - "choreography" associated with this that is part of the bluegrass tradition, and if a group want to do this rather than the in-a-straight-line, everyone with his own microphone layout - guess what, they are authorized to do so. And yes, if they are then planning to amplify that and send it out over a large auditorium, they will very likely need monitors.
They are certainly authorized to do whatever they want, but as an audio engineer, a single condensor blasting through monitors is about the least practical way to go about it. They say it's traditional and how it's always been done...
I don't really care what Bill Monroe or the guys on O Brother did. There are better, more efficient ways to put on a live show with today's technology and equipment available. Also, if they were truly trying to replicate an "organic bluegrass experience" there would be no monitors. Those didn't exist.
The Beatles only had 4 tracks and had to bounce back and forth between two tape recorders. Sure, we can do a session like that today, but there are easier ways to achieve better results.
Some traditions need to die.
(Maybe this is isolated to the Nashville scene?)
I'm not trying to get into any pointless internet arguments, but those of you poo-poo'ing the single mic technique sound like you've never done it. You don't need monitors when you are doing single mic, because the band are all playing acoustically 2 feet away from one another. Your ears are the monitors. You'll also see additional mic'ing, sometimes dynamic mics in these scenarios. The typical bluegrass audience does not require ear splitting volume, so it works out just fine. It's not a Metallica show.
The fact is that nothing replicates acoustic tones better than microphones. Pickups, piezo or otherwise do not sound half as good as a well mic'd instrument but are necessary for louder gigs. If you don't need football stadium volume, the mic thing can work just fine.
Just let the bluegrassers have their little festivals and condenser microphones. It's not hurting anyone. Every genre of music doesn't need to have rock n roll fused into it.
The fact is that nothing replicates acoustic tones better than microphones. Pickups, piezo or otherwise do not sound half as good as a well mic'd instrument but are necessary for louder gigs. If you don't need football stadium volume, the mic thing can work just fine.
Just let the bluegrassers have their little festivals and condenser microphones. It's not hurting anyone. Every genre of music doesn't need to have rock n roll fused into it.
Right on 7years down
I agree with everything you say but lets remember the VERY best sound is No Mics! Nothing compares to completely acoustic in a small space. (The only caveat is the singers have to be strong and project their voices.)
I love a totally acoustic show where you actually can see/hear the instruments emanating their sound. Like a string quartet concert you hear the viola on the right and the first violin on the left and the other two in the middle. When Kronos plays a big show they're mic'd and it's great but it's WAY better in a small hall with no mics.
btw
Bluegrass was born that way ,on the front porch's and living rooms of folks that didn't even have electricity.
The guys I pick with prefer microphones, and have no problem with using multiple mics. We don't really need monitors, we are not that loud, but use them sometimes. On bass, I sometimes use my Upton pickup through a Rumble 40 for a little boost. It's not like we hate technology, we're acoustic musicians and don't need it a lot. Some may however.
I disagree, rock and roll is great, I love rock.
But!
Most other types of music should not be amplified in the same way as rock is.
My pet peeve as a lifelong sax player in big bands is the sound man who believes every single instrument on the bandstand needs a microphone, and three or four of them on the drum set. In a room 50 feet square. I try to tell them that the big band instrumentation was designed to fill the Roseland Ballroom with 2000 dancers, that the only amplification a big band needs in an enclosed space of modest size is a vocal mic, maybe a mic for some solos (like flute), and the bass and guitar players use their own amps. They NEVER get it.
Same thing with bluegrass.
Taken as whole, there is serious truth in it. The highs are not worth the lows or I'd be still have interest in it. I don't.
I don't go this far with the opinion. There are certainly a ton of rock records I still love and listen to.
What I would say is this though. My transition to upright bass 8 years ago has given me a much more focused perspective on what it means to be a musician, and how much hard work is required to be even passable with the instrument in a given genre. In that time I've played with a ton of people, many in my own band that were rock "musicians" looking to dabble in bluegrass, old time, and jazz. The rock guys 100% of the time were inflexible, one-trick ponies that couldn't or wouldn't learn new techniques that served the music. This is one reason I said "Every genre of music doesn't need to have rock n roll fused into it." Stems from personal experience with lazy guitar players primarily.
If you want to play bluegrass, jazz, or anything else that isn't rock music - then listen to the real thing and learn something from it. The players at the bluegrass jams certainly took the time to do so.
That's similar to my experience as well. One of my best friends is a very good guitar player and he seemed really into doing a rockabilly/surf thing...until he tried to play along with me and saw that he'd have to work at it.
I don't think it's a bluegrass thing so much as it is an age thing.
There's been a burgeoning "new-grass" scene happening for a few years now. Most seem to love trad bluegrass and are influenced by it heavily, but they are also trying to do their own thing and seem to go out of their way to be inclusive.
The older, more conservative traditional bluegrass players seem to be the ones who have these issues.
Personally, I think there's lessons to be learned from both sides. For example, trad bluegrass bass seems to really take pride in interesting transitional phrases, whereas most of the new grass bass seems to be stuck on 1-5 with not much depth.
There's been a burgeoning "new-grass" scene happening for a few years now. Most seem to love trad bluegrass and are influenced by it heavily, but they are also trying to do their own thing and seem to go out of their way to be inclusive.
The older, more conservative traditional bluegrass players seem to be the ones who have these issues.
Personally, I think there's lessons to be learned from both sides. For example, trad bluegrass bass seems to really take pride in interesting transitional phrases, whereas most of the new grass bass seems to be stuck on 1-5 with not much depth.
That's wrong, jazz did...or maybe it was The Rite of Spring...or John Cage, or hip-hop, or dubstep or American Idol. Take your pick or add to the list.
Then go out and listen to the music that has survived just fine.
