Double Bass What is it with Bluegrass players?

[Biggbass]

so why not just take the tub bass and not amp it? that should get you in the door.
I think their point is that they want to keep it acoustic. No electricity should qualify.

 

[jthisdell]

And play by candle or kerosene lamp light.

 

[skwee]

If I walk up to play, and someone is giving me the crinkled up nose and crap about my instrument from the get-go, they should expect the same treatment is what I'm getting at.

 

[martinc]

If I walk up to play, and someone is giving me the crinkled up nose and crap about my instrument from the get-go, they should expect the same treatment is what I'm getting at.

skwee: Well then..that would make two people with bad attitudes. Why not save yourself a lot of trouble and go find somewhere else to play. Life is too short for this kind of aggravation.

 

[ToneMonkey]

For the most part, the bluegrass scene has its own orthodoxy. You either accept that, learn the book and go with it or you don't. You also wouldn't play baroque chamber music using 4 synths and call yourselves a "string quartet" for the same reason.

Byron Berline had an electric bassist in his "bluegrass" band for a while. It sounded great. But probably didn't sit right with the purists.

 

[MTBassMania]

I've run into this recently. I play mostly bass guitar, and I have a Godin A5 Ultra fretless (EADGC) that sounds awesome and would be perfect for a nugrass or proggrass band. I even started learning some flatpick-style solos so I can add to the round robin solos. A buddy recently asked me to play in his bluegrass band, saying, "Dude, you're a great player! Come play bass in my bluegrass band!" I said, "I could maybe do that, if I can use the Godin and we make it a little more nugrassy." He said he wanted me to play upright. I said, "I got a LONG way to go on upright and I really don't have the time to put into it. The Godin SOUNDS better (than the upright I have), I'm better at it, and we can make the music much more lively."

Know why he wanted me to play upright? It's a VISUAL thing. People like to LOOK at it. And I know that's true, because I love going to bluegrass shows, and the number one comment I get from people about the bass player is, "Oh, yeah... His bass looks so beautiful! They're such great looking instruments!"

Don't get me wrong. They ARE beautiful, but that's a stupid reason to not let someone join in. Ultimately, the listener cares more about the sound and rhythm and harmony, than what their instrument LOOKS like. I've seen plenty of bluegrass bands with non-traditional instruments playing traditional tunes, and people still get up and dance and yell and what not.

 

[bobsax]

Know why he wanted me to play upright? It's a VISUAL thing. People like to LOOK at it. And I know that's true, because I love going to bluegrass shows, and the number one comment I get from people about the bass player is, "Oh, yeah... His bass looks so beautiful! They're such great looking instruments!"

Don't get me wrong. They ARE beautiful, but that's a stupid reason to not let someone join in. Ultimately, the listener cares more about the sound and rhythm and harmony, than what their instrument LOOKS like. I've seen plenty of bluegrass bands with non-traditional instruments playing traditional tunes, and people still get up and dance and yell and what not.

I suppose on very basic level people prefer the look of the upright but I'd argue they subconsciously prefer it's sound. Thats the way it works in jazz.
I suspect your friend may want you to play the upright because you'll be more likely to keep it to 1and 5 with four on the floor.

 

[Biggbass]

It's more an issue with keeping the music traditional and the sound of the instruments as natural as possible with bluegrass music. I've played 5 string banjo for almost 50 years and agree with those who prefer to keep the instrumentation completely acoustic. I like the sound better. For example, my banjo sounds wonderful when miked as opposed to sending a DI feed vi a banjo pickup, even the Fishman Rare Earth pickup, which influences the sound of the banjo. And considering the effort
and craftsmanship that went into building the banjo I play, a Huber Lexingon,
I want the best possible capture of that sound that can be achieved, which is always with a mic. There's no difference with a good upright bass, acoustic guitar, or mandolin.

 

[bassdude51]

I think that the reason many bluegrass cats require a stand-up bassist is purely visual. The sight of a stand-up bass just fits in with the other acoustical instruments.

Also, a fair amount of bluegrass songs have double bass slapping which can't be done on an electric.

I've seen several bluegrass bands with electric basses...........................no problem!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MTBassMania]

Bigbass and bobsax - I appreciate, understand, and respect what you guys are saying. In this (my) case, I was explicitly told, "Dude, people want to see an upright." All the other instruments are acoustic electric, anyway. Mine is an EUB - a BSX Allegro.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Well, by bringing the electric you are potentially compromising the groups brand and image for playing more traditional bluegrass music. You are not really serving the group at that point, but yourself. When i go to see bluegrass i am heavily disappointed when their is no upright bass on stage. I miss the sound, and yes, the look.

Of course electric CAN sound perfectly good in a bluegrass band, i am not really debating that. But a miced, acoustic upright bass, will simply sound better and more authentic for the bluegrass sound. Hell, the reason i picked up the instrument was to authentically play jazz and bluegrass styles. Why would i want to go back on that?

What if the guitar player showed up one day with his strat and amp. All hell would break loose! We are no exception.

 

[jlmorgan84]

Let me take it probably much deeper than is helpful and say that the bluegrass fascination with the Bill Monroe style string band lineup is about much more than music, it's tied to nostalgia and the veneration of a certain kind of Appalachian working class culture.

Can an electric bass guitar do a perfectly good impression of an upright? Sure with the right approach and setup it can. Can you play the Martha White theme on a strat? Sure you can, but the reason people won't like that is probably about more than just music, and "traditional" reasons tend to be the most stubborn, because people usually don't think they do what they do on account of "tradition."

Let me also add that I live in South Carolina, and bluegrass culture here is tied to all kind of stuff that has nothing to do with music. I'll put it this way, We're playing a bluegrass festival this afternoon and slipping in a Woody Guthrie song about migrant workers, and it makes me happy.

 

[martinc]

Some additional thoughts....bluegrass music has changed a lot in the past 30 years. Songs and instrumentals from outside the "old" bluegrass tent are the norm these days. That also requires the old root-five upright players to learn more stuff and new techniques if they want to serve the music properly. A lot of the newer stuff, especially "new country" -based material, is easier to play on the electric bass so not a lot gets lost that way as long as the player is solid and in the groove. Dancing up and down the neck on an electric bass is bad no matter what. Some EUB's work OK too. But I believe traditional bluegrass songs always sound better with an upright bass....as long as the upright is mic'd and the player serves the music.

 

[turf3]

The thing I don't understand is why the electric players keep getting their knickers in a twist when told that people playing traditional bluegrass want the upright bass. If you show up to the rehearsal of a string quintet working on the Trout with a Stratocaster, they will tell you they want a viola, not a Strat. Is there an example somewhere of five players playing the Trout quintet with all-electric instruments and synthesizers? I am sure there is. Is it music? I am sure it is. Does that mean you have the right to force the string quartet to accept you playing a Stratocaster rather than a viola? It does not.

If the leader of a bluegrass band is happy with electric bass, they will tell you.

If a jam session is acoustic only, bring an acoustic instrument, or go to another jam.

Bringing examples of professional groups that use electric bass does not negate the right of musicians who want to play bluegrass without electric bass, to exclude the electric bass. Comments about playing by candle light are just snark, not responsive to the issue at hand.

 

[turf3]

I think that the reason many bluegrass cats require a stand-up bassist is purely visual. The sight of a stand-up bass just fits in with the other acoustical instruments.

Also, a fair amount of bluegrass songs have double bass slapping which can't be done on an electric.

I've seen several bluegrass bands with electric basses...........................no problem!!!!!!!!!!

Not relevant to the discussion, which is not whether professionals can and do use EB in bluegrass bands. It's Earl's band, he can do whatever he wants. If the musicians in a particular band or jam session don't want EB, they don't want EB.

 

[damonsmith]

In situations like this you have to make a serious case for the instrument in the music. If you are just a random bass guitarist that wants to play when upright players are available you are SOL. If you actually have a serious solo and ensemble concept for the bass guitar in bluegrass it is a whole other story.
Most straight ahead just groups would rather have a double bass when asked about instruments.
Most straight ahead jazz groups would rather have Steve Swallow than a hypothetical double bass player.
I imagine Victor Wooten would be allowed to play in many bluegrass groups that "don't want bass guitar".

 

[Max George]

The bluegrass musicians I play with are primarily acoustic musicians. We have developed an acoustic skill set, developing good acoustic tone, physical facility, and the ability to balance acoustically with each other. If we can't do these things we are not welcome. It is possible for an electric bass to fit in. I'm sure we would like for our skill sets to be respected though. Do we prefer upright bass?? It tends to be what we are used to. I personally do not want to compete volume wise with an electric instrument. That can get out of hand quickly, because generally we can't compete. I also don't want to hear bassist's thumping and demonstrating their rock/funk skills. What's the possibility of that happening?? Even when we are amplified, it's usually just put some mic's in front of us, we can still balance ourselves. It's nothing personal electric bassists, it's just what we do.

 

[jasonrp]

How are you and your guys about upright slap? I've played with some who want it and some who don't so I tend to dial it down quite a bit unless they ask for it.

 

[Grumry]

This is an honest and sincere question so please no flaming. I want to try to understand what's going on.

I've been playing guitar for over 50 years. I've been playing bass guitar for over 15 years and once I started playing the bass guitar I almost never picked up a guitar again. The bass is my instrument.

I play a Fender Jazz bass, a Kala Ubass, and a two string washtub bass that I electrified and now sounds like the voice of God.

My loves are acoustic blues, old timey music, folk, and jug band music. I'm not a great player, but I'm regularly asked to play gigs backing up other musicians and I've been asked to backup other musicians when they recorded their CDs so I can't be all that bad.

For 7 years I've run a local acoustic jam twice a month and 20 to 25 musicians show up every two weeks to join in. The skill level at the jam is from beginner to pro and it's been a joy to see beginners blossom and go on to join bands and play paying gigs. My number one rule is to be inclusionary rather than exclusionary. Even though I'm electrified, I have no problem fitting in with acoustic players. In fact, I'm often asked to turn up the volume a little.

So finally, here's my problem.

There's a local bluegrass club that meets and jams once a month. I've tried joining in several times, but it's been made very clear that if I'm not playing a DB I'm not welcome. About 35 players show up at their jams each month, but there's usually only one or two DB players.

The funny part is that the four or five leaders of the bluegrass club come to my jam every two weeks. When they do, they sit and stand near and around me and seem to be enjoying themselves.

So, what's the deal with bluegrass people? I've heard similar stories from around the country that bluegrass people are snobs. At one point I considered buying a DB so that I could fit in, but after I thought about it, I decided that I didn't want to become one of these people.

So, once again, what is it with bluegrass people?

I feel better now

These are the same people that demand they only use one large diaphragm condensor mic, so they can play "organically" around it, while at the same time demanding separate monitor mixes without feedback.

Do they all wear old tweed jackets and fedoras, too?

 

[Oddly]

There's very much a similar 'Trad Police' deal in Ireland with our celtic music.
At least with bluegrass there's the option of Double Bass...

That said, bands like Moving Hearts and TV series like The Transatlantic Sessions have gone a huge way towards bringing a decent low-end to the genre...

 

[Max George]

I do it and do not get complaints. As a matter of fact, they seem to like it.

How are you and your guys about upright slap? I've played with some who want it and some who don't so I tend to dial it down quite a bit unless they ask for it.

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