Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
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Double Bass What is it with Bluegrass players?
- Thread starter Wings
- Start date
Good discussion. I appreciate what the bluegrass world has done to maintain. I can go to the "snoby" shows/jams and hear real bluegrass....more importantly the kids can hear real bluegrass and have a solid frame of reference of the genre. If they let their guard down all hell WILL break loose just like it has in the other genres. What is "blues" today? What is country?..... go to a "blues" jam and all you hear is mustang sally and stevie ray von (fender guitar rock) Go to a "bluegrass" jam (that doesnt stick to its guns) and its electric bass, hippy folk, and heaven forbid - some beatles thrown in. Today's western swing sounds like George Strait - etc etc......I could go on : ) ..... im just a lover of music in it purest form - fusion (to me) is not a good thing
Bluegrass has been bombarded with this huge folk movement lately..........Keep bluegrass bluegrass....salute the snoby grassers!
Bluegrass has been bombarded with this huge folk movement lately..........Keep bluegrass bluegrass....salute the snoby grassers!
Bluegrass is a genre, category, style, form, of music. Pick which ever term you like. If you want to play that form of music, then respect the genre and learn the nuances of it. That's part of being a musician, or what differentiates you from being just a bass player.
If you can't respect that, then move on to jam-grass/new-grass. Not all styles of music in this country need have rock n roll fused into them making them accessible to everyone and anyone. That's far from being a snob.
If you can't respect that, then move on to jam-grass/new-grass. Not all styles of music in this country need have rock n roll fused into them making them accessible to everyone and anyone. That's far from being a snob.
I've been friends with a drummer/guitarist for 20 or so years. We used to jam together and hang out. Then he got into Old Time Bluegrass and that was the end of that.
So he wont hang out with you now because he plays bluegrass? One shouldn't have anything to do with the other.
Well, families, kids, jobs, distance (2 hour travel) etc influence how often we get together. But, whenever we do get together, we're not playing music.
Yeah, Tesla set the bar too high.
Tesla, metal???? Classic rock/blues maybe.
See, we all define who's in and out of a genre.
FWIW, when I was growing up, there was no classic rock, but the harder stuff was called hard rock and heavy metal--with faint distinctions between them. Jeez, pre-Van Hagar Sammy was solidly characterized as heavy metal--according to the animated movie's soundtrack, anyway.
FWIW, when I was growing up, there was no classic rock, but the harder stuff was called hard rock and heavy metal--with faint distinctions between them. Jeez, pre-Van Hagar Sammy was solidly characterized as heavy metal--according to the animated movie's soundtrack, anyway.
Here is my take. Bluegrass is almost sui generis within the music world in that it is highly participatory, even at the very highest levels. Jams often include very high level players, sometimes even professionals, playing right next to beginners. This leads to a mentality primarily among the intermediate level players (the players that I have found to be the most intimidating with regard to policing the "rules" of bluegrass) who view the jam as "their performance," and they want to keep it a certain way. Basically, your electric instrument intrudes upon their carefully constructed fantasy that they are professional level musicians. My personal feeling is that in a jam session, pretty much anything goes (within reason); the stage is where I am more likely to "assert" my "preference" for "acoustic instruments." I use the quotes because the vast majority of the time I am playing my "acoustic" instruments through an amp or PA or both.
DWCJR, well said!
The higher the caliber player, the larger the circle remains. I, and even my old time buddy, hated discovering that where we once were in the jam circle moved two steps in.
The higher the caliber player, the larger the circle remains. I, and even my old time buddy, hated discovering that where we once were in the jam circle moved two steps in.
True for me too, since I'm in my mid 40's. But those definitions you mentioned are pretty old now. Even Jam Band is related to artists with very different sounds than The Dead. FWIW I love bluegrass, maybe the newer stuff though, we go see YMSB at least once a year and have for sometime.
I was at a bluegrass jam, and the other upright bass player had a sound that was incredibly long on sustain
and deep sounding. I would have bet heavily that it was an electric if I hadn't seen it. And it just didn't work
well at all for bluegrass.
I think the real problem with electric for bluegrass is in the typical playing style of electric bass players.
Bluegrass has no percussion section. It relies on the bass and mandolin for the "rhythm section".
I often work out bass for a bluegrass song on a P bass. I have to seriously dampen the notes to make
it sound right.
If an electric bass is played correctly at a bluegrass jam, it should not be a problem for anyone. However,
if it is not played correctly, the others may have a legitimate complaint.
For an actual bluegrass band, image is part of it, and an upright bass is part of that image.
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and deep sounding. I would have bet heavily that it was an electric if I hadn't seen it. And it just didn't work
well at all for bluegrass.
I think the real problem with electric for bluegrass is in the typical playing style of electric bass players.
Bluegrass has no percussion section. It relies on the bass and mandolin for the "rhythm section".
I often work out bass for a bluegrass song on a P bass. I have to seriously dampen the notes to make
it sound right.
If an electric bass is played correctly at a bluegrass jam, it should not be a problem for anyone. However,
if it is not played correctly, the others may have a legitimate complaint.
For an actual bluegrass band, image is part of it, and an upright bass is part of that image.
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I agree with your description as to what the classic bluegrass sound is, and that an electric if played and possibly setup right (foam mute) can cop that as well. What I don't like is the statement of a legitimate complaint if it is not right as well as the need for the image. If nothing else was ever tried then the music would completely stagnate, there would be little innovation and subsequently may not ever capture a new crowd (read younger listeners). Luckily, right now, there is a very strong resurgence with the classic sound, with a twist here and there mostly lyrically and related to solo style but instruments as well. Most of the younger people that I am around listening to these were never in to the really old stuff and subsequently would not bat an eye if an electric was pulled out, as long as they could do their little hillbilly dancing all over the place.
Check out these guys, staying very traditional -
Compared to something a little more non-traditional with KW
You nailed the issue, Wings. It's all about LISTENING to the other players, and not being the loudest player there. We do have an "acoustic instrument only" rule at most of the our parties and jams, because the electric guitars have always been too loud, no matter what we say, so the rule stands (other than for the electric bass, which is always played at the level of the acoustics). I also now play the UB, and enjoy playing either EB or UB bass depending on the song. Much more fun for all involved.
There are actually 2 parallel issues at play here. Please prepare for sweeping generalizations...
1) For a lot of bluegrass players, particularly at the intermediate/non-professional level, or the point where musician and fan begin to overlap, bluegrass is essentially musical cosplay. At this level, many of the fans/musicians WANT musical stagnation. They want to play/hear How Mountain Girls Can Love or Uncle Pen the way they think those songs have been played for 50-60 years.
2) For many fans, particularly younger fans, early bluegrass can be pretty inaccessible. The high, lonesome vocals, the breakneck tempos, the lowfi sound quality, all of the things that give the early music its authenticity to one group (the "trad police") are the very things that make it inaccessible to a younger generation (mine, basically). How many people at a NC or YMSB concert have really heard Bill Monroe, The Stanley Brothers, or Jim and Jesse? From the conversations I have had, virtually none.
As someone who tries to put on a show and entertain folks, it can be a very narrow tight rope to walk. Trying to give older, more traditional folks the tradition and nostalgia they crave while simultaneously making younger folks want to get up and groove is a tough row to hoe(down).
1) For a lot of bluegrass players, particularly at the intermediate/non-professional level, or the point where musician and fan begin to overlap, bluegrass is essentially musical cosplay. At this level, many of the fans/musicians WANT musical stagnation. They want to play/hear How Mountain Girls Can Love or Uncle Pen the way they think those songs have been played for 50-60 years.
2) For many fans, particularly younger fans, early bluegrass can be pretty inaccessible. The high, lonesome vocals, the breakneck tempos, the lowfi sound quality, all of the things that give the early music its authenticity to one group (the "trad police") are the very things that make it inaccessible to a younger generation (mine, basically). How many people at a NC or YMSB concert have really heard Bill Monroe, The Stanley Brothers, or Jim and Jesse? From the conversations I have had, virtually none.
As someone who tries to put on a show and entertain folks, it can be a very narrow tight rope to walk. Trying to give older, more traditional folks the tradition and nostalgia they crave while simultaneously making younger folks want to get up and groove is a tough row to hoe(down).
Very true, and agreed. Knowing your audience is the key I would say. Most venues that have YMSB are likely not filled with older trad cats unless they specifically enjoy the neo-bluegrass.
That hasn't been my experience. YMSB because of their "jamgrass nature" skews toward the college demographic; however, I see a nice mix of ages at most neo-bluegrass/Americana shows. Audiences are pretty mixed. That being said, I am almost always the youngest player at most of the jams I attend... most of the musicians at those jams are 40s to 50s, with a few 60+.
TRADITIONAL?
MY GAWt, deyr yoozin moar dan wun MYKE! :***: Blasstpheemers! Wuteffer happ'n t'dem gutten ol' daice wen der moosishuns gaddered 'rownd wun Myke? 
Durn kids deze daice wit der mooltymyke settups!
I quite enjoyed my bluegrass band experience. I was way overplayin' my DB when I made a quintet out of the quartet of geetar, banjo, fiddle and demandoling I joined. I didn't have a clue about the traditions or the sound. The band reeled me in slowly, feeding me examples, gentle suggestions, nudges in the right direction – nobody said "you're doing it all wrong, idiot", just solid encouragement and edification ... at last I was starting to revel in the traditional role, trying to keep it simple while still tryin' to put my tiny stamp on things here and there when the plywood stage was pulled out from under us all 'cause the geeterist's job relocated him back Stateside – end of band.
The following vid, not my band...
