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What is the best 9v battery for active basses?

#201
Rob22315 said:
This statement is rubbish. I've been externally powering my onboardpreamps for years, works great. It's not for everyone but it's easy to do and works great for me and several other TBers.
Click to expand...

Statement is not rubbish. I said I don't care, but it is generally not recommended. I've modifed several basses to this...but after a few years the players came back, wanting to revert it back again. Here's EMGs stance on it, which I re-quote here:


"Using an AC Adapter (Battery Eliminator): Using an AC Adapter is not a great idea. They tend to be noisy. EMG has yet to spec or design an AC Adapter. Effects pedals tend to be noisy because they ususally add alot of gain. Since the pickup is the first element of the chain it’s best for it to have as quiet a power supply as possible, thus a battery. Both the ES-9 and ES-18 power supplies from EMG have inputs for Adapters. The choice is yours if you can tolerate any extra noise from an Adapter."


Invalid Link Removed


The same goes for phantom powering, believe me. If you do it with great results, so be it. But it is generally not recommended, and those I've done it for, has come back EXCEPT the one with the Peavey Cirrus bass. If you want to bicker and whine, why not e-mail EMG directly? It's they who've said it first. Well, not even them. Not me. I am just from experience. Not only with my basses, but moreso with others. Others thought this was the best idea since sliced bacon. Eventually down the years, it slowdly dawned on them...

Personally I don't care.

Also, since much of the gear used by pro famous bassists, please show me some interviews, or "rig rundowns" of professionally touring bassists that uses phantom power for their pickups (sans Peavey Cirrus basses).
 
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#202
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#205
Rob22315 said:
This statement is rubbish. I've been externally powering my onboardpreamps for years, works great. It's not for everyone but it's easy to do and works great for me and several other TBers.
Click to expand...
9v is 9v regardless of where it comes from. I have some basses that I don't use very often. One is a fretless jazz with emg's I've had for over 15 yrs and never changed the battery. I was assuming it was running passively but is that even possible?22
Honch said:
So did I. My TWO 9v lithiums lasted almost 8 years. Changed them out the other day. But ok then, that is at least a year too...;)
Click to expand...
I have similar times. I always unplug my basses and have gone over a year. I had an American spector ns2 for over 2 yrs. changing the battery once. None of my basses have had a battery actually die while playing. There was a noticable improvement when I did change it on the spector but it was still going. I figured the emg's would just keep going passivly. Maby they do or not. I only changed it because it was about a year and I figured it would need it soon. I think if you guys are having battery issues, always try to unplug your bass, that IS what turns the preamp on and off. I'm going to open up the jazz bass and take a pic, the battery in there was put in around 1997 and it works fine. It might sound better with a new one, but the emg's keep going.
 
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#206
The EMG's will fuzz out and go dead when the battery(s) die - been there, done that ;) . The bass in my avatar had two batteries and they were basically down to zero when it cut out at a rehearsal. I rewired it for a single battery about a year afterwards (I never boost the bass on the guitar) and measured the two batteries at 7 volts - one is still going and the other is in the disconnected holder as a spare. I swap in a new battery when recording but still use the "dead" one live. None of my gigs are all that important LOL. i also tend to use a little "grit" so a bit of fuzziness isn't a problem.
 
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#207
Bigbri said:
9v is 9v regardless of where it comes from. I have some basses that I don't use very often. One is a fretless jazz with emg's I've had for over 15 yrs and never changed the battery. I was assuming it was running passively but is that even possible?22

I have similar times. I always unplug my basses and have gone over a year. I had an American spector ns2 for over 2 yrs. changing the battery once. None of my basses have had a battery actually die while playing. There was a noticable improvement when I did change it on the spector but it was still going. I figured the emg's would just keep going passivly. Maby they do or not. I only changed it because it was about a year and I figured it would need it soon. I think if you guys are having battery issues, always try to unplug your bass, that IS what turns the preamp on and off. I'm going to open up the jazz bass and take a pic, the battery in there was put in around 1997 and it works fine. It might sound better with a new one, but the emg's keep going.
Click to expand...

Yes, do unplug, and they keep going.
As stated already several times in this thread, and has been much debate in other Active vs Passive threads, there's a huge misconception of what an "active bass" really is. While EMGs do really have passive pickups - the HZ series - the active EMG pickups does NOT EVER work without any kind of juice, like a 9v battery. If they do, chances are that it is a EMG HZ passive pickup attached to whatever preamp, or eq in it. I e you can change out those HZ pickups to whatever else passive, and the bass will work the same.

EMG active pickups STILL needs at least one 9v battery and can't ever be run without one. If the battery gone dead, so does the pickups.

The general consensus is that EMG active pickups is at a sales ratio of 9/10 compared to their passive ones. And if you happen to have their cheapo passive ones, chances are that if you swap them out to almost any other passive pickup brand, they are better. EMG has taken a lot of flak for their passive design. Compared to their active ones, everything passive just blows out of the water. If you choose EMG you choose them for their active ones. Not passive. If you should choose passive, there are others that are considerably better in all areas. And more priceworthy too.

AFAIK, no one has told me if there's another pickup maker that does totally active pickups, like EMGs. Like in: they won't ever work without batteries. Not even Seymour Duncans livewires.

- - - - - -

Again from EMGs site (the one pdf file linked to above):

"Battery Life: The typical 9-Volt Alkaline battery is rated at 500 maH (Milliamp Hours). Lithium batteries can be rated as high as 1200 maH. The more current capacity (maH) the battery has, the longer it will last. The most important specification (known as the “hours to cutoff voltage”) is often not specified by the makers. The cutoff voltage is typically 1/2 of the original battery voltage, or 4.5V in this case. Because batteries are used in so many different types of applications it’s hard to predict battery life. See: Nine-volt battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT EMG SAYS:

"Battery Death: When the battery is coming to the end of its useful life, and headroom is limited, you will notice a distortion at the initial attack of the string. It will sound like an unnatural (ech!) and you should consider changing the battery. If you just have EMG Pickups in your guitar without any accessories the pickups will operate on a 2.5 Volt battery. Accessories will have a higher threshold, typically about 4.5 Volts. Always, ALWAYS! install a new battery"


Conclusion:

  • if you have ONE active EMG pickup, it will still operate flawlessly without any degradation at all, down to 2.5 volt!
  • if you have TWO or more accessories installed, they will operate at just above 4.5 volt still, without any audible difference from full 9v.
  • It takes a long time before any 9v battery reaches 2.5 volt. Most people scraps them and considers them dead by that reading in any battery checker.

So, the general rule of thumb, is that you don't need to change the 9v battery, until they hit the 4.5 volt level. It takes quite a while for a 9v battery to go down to 4.5 v or even 2.5 v and it will show up as a dead battery whenever put into a battery checker. Anything below "green" or "good" in a battery checker is battery swap. However, EMGs can still run with "showing red" batteries. Take this into account when using lithium batteries then. Little wonder they last 8 years or more.

Mind you, this is just EMG mileage. Not to be mistaken to be used as a guideline for any other active bass, or active circuit.
 
#208
Honch said:
Statement is not rubbish. I said I don't care, but it is generally not recommended. I've modifed several basses to this...but after a few years the players came back, wanting to revert it back again. Here's EMGs stance on it, which I re-quote here:


"Using an AC Adapter (Battery Eliminator): Using an AC Adapter is not a great idea. They tend to be noisy. EMG has yet to spec or design an AC Adapter. Effects pedals tend to be noisy because they ususally add alot of gain. Since the pickup is the first element of the chain it’s best for it to have as quiet a power supply as possible, thus a battery. Both the ES-9 and ES-18 power supplies from EMG have inputs for Adapters. The choice is yours if you can tolerate any extra noise from an Adapter."


Invalid Link Removed


The same goes for phantom powering, believe me. If you do it with great results, so be it. But it is generally not recommended, and those I've done it for, has come back EXCEPT the one with the Peavey Cirrus bass. If you want to bicker and whine, why not e-mail EMG directly? It's they who've said it first. Well, not even them. Not me. I am just from experience. Not only with my basses, but moreso with others. Others thought this was the best idea since sliced bacon. Eventually down the years, it slowdly dawned on them...

Personally I don't care.

Also, since much of the gear used by pro famous bassists, please show me some interviews, or "rig rundowns" of professionally touring bassists that uses phantom power for their pickups (sans Peavey Cirrus basses).
Click to expand...
Maybe it's a generational thing... when me and everybody my age were lugging around svt's, (regardless of the 810), you got so much noise just through the fan running when you turned it on, it didn't matter as long as you could be heard, and heard good. There is absolutely nothing wrong with noise unless you are making a record. Has anyone actually been bothered by a little noise here and there during a gig? I saw Black Sabbath in the 80's with Dio and the noise and hum from their amps IN BETWEEN songs is what I remember more than Geezer playing. My ears were ringing so bad walking out of Maple Leaf Gardens...I probably lost 10% of my upper hearing that night, but I'd say it was worth it.
 
#209
BassChuck said:
I am assuming (probably wrongly) this is at least semi-serious. I use Duracells. But.. be aware they make one that is called Duracell Procell and it's fairly inexpensive. Make for things like theater wireless mics they deliver a good 9v for about two hours and then die a quick and unannouced death. They are cheaper for a use one time. Theater folks use them for one show and toss 'em out.
Not good for instruments or pedals.
Click to expand...
Same experience at work with Procell. Asked the boss to start getting us something else.
 
#210
Honch said:
Yes, do unplug, and they keep going.
As stated already several times in this thread, and has been much debate in other Active vs Passive threads, there's a huge misconception of what an "active bass" really is. While EMGs do really have passive pickups - the HZ series - the active EMG pickups does NOT EVER work without any kind of juice, like a 9v battery. If they do, chances are that it is a EMG HZ passive pickup attached to whatever preamp, or eq in it. I e you can change out those HZ pickups to whatever else passive, and the bass will work the same.

EMG active pickups STILL needs at least one 9v battery and can't ever be run without one. If the battery gone dead, so does the pickups.

The general consensus is that EMG active pickups is at a sales ratio of 9/10 compared to their passive ones. And if you happen to have their cheapo passive ones, chances are that if you swap them out to almost any other passive pickup brand, they are better. EMG has taken a lot of flak for their passive design. Compared to their active ones, everything passive just blows out of the water. If you choose EMG you choose them for their active ones. Not passive. If you should choose passive, there are others that are considerably better in all areas. And more priceworthy too.

AFAIK, no one has told me if there's another pickup maker that does totally active pickups, like EMGs. Like in: they won't ever work without batteries. Not even Seymour Duncans livewires.

- - - - - -

Again from EMGs site (the one pdf file linked to above):

"Battery Life: The typical 9-Volt Alkaline battery is rated at 500 maH (Milliamp Hours). Lithium batteries can be rated as high as 1200 maH. The more current capacity (maH) the battery has, the longer it will last. The most important specification (known as the “hours to cutoff voltage”) is often not specified by the makers. The cutoff voltage is typically 1/2 of the original battery voltage, or 4.5V in this case. Because batteries are used in so many different types of applications it’s hard to predict battery life. See: Nine-volt battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT EMG SAYS:

"Battery Death: When the battery is coming to the end of its useful life, and headroom is limited, you will notice a distortion at the initial attack of the string. It will sound like an unnatural (ech!) and you should consider changing the battery. If you just have EMG Pickups in your guitar without any accessories the pickups will operate on a 2.5 Volt battery. Accessories will have a higher threshold, typically about 4.5 Volts. Always, ALWAYS! install a new battery"


Conclusion:

  • if you have ONE active EMG pickup, it will still operate flawlessly without any degradation at all, down to 2.5 volt!
  • if you have TWO or more accessories installed, they will operate at just above 4.5 volt still, without any audible difference from full 9v.
  • It takes a long time before any 9v battery reaches 2.5 volt. Most people scraps them and considers them dead by that reading in any battery checker.

So, the general rule of thumb, is that you don't need to change the 9v battery, until they hit the 4.5 volt level. It takes quite a while for a 9v battery to go down to 4.5 v or even 2.5 v and it will show up as a dead battery whenever put into a battery checker. Anything below "green" or "good" in a battery checker is battery swap. However, EMGs can still run with "showing red" batteries. Take this into account when using lithium batteries then. Little wonder they last 8 years or more.

Mind you, this is just EMG mileage. Not to be mistaken to be used as a guideline for any other active bass, or active ciremg or any cuit.
Click to expand...
I have just been putting the 9v on my tongue (since 1978) and using the pain scale to determine charg. No joke...Ok so, there are passive, passive w preamp, and active preamp only? To be totally honest, the only reason my fretless has Emg's is because I couldn't get a set of Bartolini's. I can tell you with 100% certainty that my jazz with emg's (w/9v battery) has been running since 1997 or more.
 
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#211
Bigbri said:
Maybe it's a generational thing... when me and everybody my age were lugging around svt's, (regardless of the 810), you got so much noise just through the fan running when you turned it on, it didn't matter as long as you could be heard, and heard good. There is absolutely nothing wrong with noise unless you are making a record. Has anyone actually been bothered by a little noise here and there during a gig? ...
Click to expand...

Yes, the younger you are, the more are you bothered. I have, and in studio especially. Same as I don't like new lightweigth amps with huge wattage that has a fan running all of the time. Had tube amps with fans in them. Rather have an open back (not on bass combos though) head, and no fan. As you age, you don't hear noise anymore. I tested an old cassette deck the other day, I could not hear anymore if the Dolby NR was in or out. I used to.
 
#212
Honch said:
Statement is not rubbish. I said I don't care, but it is generally not recommended. I've modifed several basses to this...but after a few years the players came back, wanting to revert it back again. Here's EMGs stance on it, which I re-quote here:


"Using an AC Adapter (Battery Eliminator): Using an AC Adapter is not a great idea. They tend to be noisy. EMG has yet to spec or design an AC Adapter. Effects pedals tend to be noisy because they ususally add alot of gain. Since the pickup is the first element of the chain it’s best for it to have as quiet a power supply as possible, thus a battery. Both the ES-9 and ES-18 power supplies from EMG have inputs for Adapters. The choice is yours if you can tolerate any extra noise from an Adapter."


Invalid Link Removed


The same goes for phantom powering, believe me. If you do it with great results, so be it. But it is generally not recommended, and those I've done it for, has come back EXCEPT the one with the Peavey Cirrus bass. If you want to bicker and whine, why not e-mail EMG directly? It's they who've said it first. Well, not even them. Not me. I am just from experience. Not only with my basses, but moreso with others. Others thought this was the best idea since sliced bacon. Eventually down the years, it slowdly dawned on them...

Personally I don't care.

Also, since much of the gear used by pro famous bassists, please show me some interviews, or "rig rundowns" of professionally touring bassists that uses phantom power for their pickups (sans Peavey Cirrus basses).
Click to expand...

That's quite a lengthy post for someone who doesn't care.

What's rubbish is the statement that no one recommends doing this - or words to that effect. I recommend it and there are several of us on TB who also recommend it. I'm glad you changed your position to 'it's not generally recommended' because that's at least not an absolute statement although I still disagree with it. There's a big difference between one pickup manufacturer specifically not recommending it and the practice being 'not generally recommended'. Show me all those pros lined up specifically NOT recommending this. You won't find any because few others than EMG have voiced an opinion.

Obviously the trick is to find a quiet power supply. As a rule, I wouldn't do this in a studio. Live, it works great - I have zero issues with noise from my supplies even with a one JFET buffer that has zero tolerance for supply noise. I've had a few crappy supplies (Behringer was horrible) but I found ones that work great for not a lot of money. I have good luck with the Danelectro analog ones but they've converted to the switching supplies for the ones they offer today. The Snarks generate a little noise. I found a decent 18V supply that worked well live.
 
#213
I would do the opposite. Use it in the studio when the noise is magnified by the sheer silence and isolation. Live I couldn't care less. You've gone through a lot to find a quiet power supply, tested a few. I just buy one battery, and lo and behold, even if they're crap in the longevity and dies off too soon, they're always silent. No battery is more "silent" than the rest.

And especially live, at different venues, and stages, my god I wanted a battery. You don't play as loud in a studio as you live, where EVERYTHING is magnified. There's way too much unwieldiness, and to keep track of. I have converted quite a few back and forth. People wanted this for like 15-20 years ago, thinking this would solve all problems. Just a few years down the line, they came back with the same basses, and asked me to wire them back for battery use again. Even pro bass players going to large tours nationwide. Their basses on tour, got unplugged anyway. NO ONE forgot it. Especially not the roadies, and backline crew.

There are even pedal aficionados that still swear by batteries. It's not the "noise" as in high hissing "ssssshhhh" above 10 K or higher. It's about the actual ground hum at 60 Hz (to you in US) and 50 Hz (EU) that's the worst problem, and it creeps through. There's a reason there are these huge "kits" with a rechargable lithium-ion battery to drive all pedals. People want batteries just to get rid of the power adapter. Dodgy grids are everywhere!

You have had a few crappy supplies, Behringer, etc, but I tell you I have had not a few crappy batteries that hummed. Or produced other noise. Not one. I've tried to find other pickupmakers that recommends external power supplies, to whatever their active circuitry but found none.

I have produced ONE pickup manufacturer that doesn't recommend external power supply.

Now, please, point me to ONE pickup manufacturer who doesn't recommend batteries at all for any of their products. Although I think that Peavey would very well do with such a recommendation for their old and extinct Peavey Cirrus bass which is the only bass I recommend phantom power to.
 

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