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What is "transparent"?

dvh

dvh

Sep 1, 2006
2,877
59
Halifax, Nova Scotia
www.dvh.ca
#1
I don't get the whole "flat" or "transparent" thing that some apply to describe certain amps/cabs.

Who's to say what the (sorry) base line is that is universally accepted as flat or transparent?

If a Markbass sounds different from a GK from a, etc. etc. which one is considered "transparent". Isn't the most "transparent" still just that amp's sound?

Is it all jsut subjectivley in the ear of the beholder?

Just wondering.
 
#2
The most flat/transparent amp is the one that comes closest to the sound of your bass through a good desk and fullsize studio monitors.

It's pretty easy to check if an amp has flat frequency response by running pink noise through it into a computer. You also need to check for distortion. fdeck's free analysis software does a pretty good job both (distortion shows up as sawtoothing of the response).

Alex
 
#3
Transparent, flat, or uncolored, means that all frequencies are heard at the same level. Basically, a 42Hz tone, a 440Hz tone, a 1KHz tone, etc.... are all the same level (Volume). This absolutely does not mean it is better, it is just flat.

Many bass players like the mids scooped (less). DJ's have become famous for their smile shaped EQ's, with extreme lows and extreme highs boosted 12 dB's, and mid frequencies cut 12 dB's. Personally, I like a rather flat response, with a touch of lows cut, and a touch of low mids added. This gives me a cleaner and punchier tone, but that's just my opinion.
 
#4
In my experiance, "transparent" amps sound fairly poor. Either that or my basses are rubbish! My old Peavey mark 3 head didn't have any kind of pre shape at all. Just an eq. When I turn pre shape and EQ off on my Ashdown, it sounds EXACTLY like the peavey. I.e my true tone.
 
#5
I hear transparent and flat very differently. 'Flat' is a somewhat exact term that can be measured, although true 'flat' response is greatly dependent on the room acoustics, so that the idea of 'flat response' measured in a lab is somewhat uninteresting to me as a bassist, especially an EBist.

Many of us use the term 'transparent' to indicate a clean, wide tone that extends rather far into both the lower bass and upper treble frequencies, and is typically associated with high quality solid state amps and preamps (tube or SS) that tend to get their inspiration from mixing board 'strips'.

So, flat seems to have some 'real' meaning. Transparent is a very subjective term IMO.
 
#8
In my opinion transparent is being able to play a CD (or other favorite medium) through the amp and speakers, close your eyes and it sounds like you're there. No strange coloration, or peaks. This measures as a "flat" frequency response across the spectrum.

Most bass amps/cabinets are not transparent. With their tone controls "flat" they have a noticeable eq curve on the output. This is their signature sound. Many like this - it's like plug an play. If you don't like it, sometimes you can adjust the knobs to your liking. Check out Fdeck's site for measurements he did with his GK.

IMHO - Transparent works best for modeling because you're duplicating an entirely different rig with your current rig. Good FOH/PA amps and speakers make excellent bass rigs for modeling. They are also excellent for reproducing a preamp you really like the sound of.
 
#9
Philbiker said:
Transparent is an audiophile term that really doesn't have any relevance to amp gear IMO.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I like the sound of my bass, and prefer to hear it and not my speakers. I have received many comments from those who've had the opportunity to play a number of instruments through both high quality amp/speaker combinations and run of the mill. Nearly all have said that no matter what you play through a highly colored amp/speaker it always sounds pretty much the same. OTOH, played though an uncolored system cheap instruments sound worse, while good instruments sound better.
 
#11
The (mostly accepted) definitions of flat and transparent have been well covered by the posters above.

I'm sure I'll get whipped here for saying this, but here are my thoughts.

I'm very happy with my setup right now. I have a cab (Bergantino IP310) that is at least in theory, pretty flat, neither emphasizing or minimizing the various frequencies on the spectrum very much. For the most part, the sound that goes in, comes out. I like it a lot, but it seems to emphasize the differences among preamps by not imparting a huge coloration of its own on to your sound.

However, I don't like a completely flat response, either. So I run a preamp as well as (sometimes) a parametric EQ into the Berg, which gives me tone shaping ability. I could have that with any power amp/cab situation, but the flat/neutral nature of the IP310 allows me a nice clean base to work from, almost like a clean slate, rather than having to factor the cab's uneven response into the equation as well. Fewer variables to work with usually means fewer places for me to mess things up. :p Did I mention I like the simplicity of passive basses?

Mostly, I just like the fact that it's easy for me to dial in the tone I like, and flexible enough to get a really good sound in most places that aren't acoustically horrible (concrete rooms shaped like a cube, for instance).
 
#12
"Transparent" would logically describe something that does not alter the sonic characteristics of the signal, aside perhaps from straight amplification. The only true way to determine whether something is reasonably transparent is to compare its output with its input.

In reality, though, many use "transparent" to describe a piece of gear that sounds pleasing without noticeable distortion, whether or not it alters the signal sonically.

"Flat" means a reasonably even and constant frequency response that does not emphasize or suppress any particular audio frequencies or ranges of frequencies. It is an important element of true "transparency."
 
#13
billfitzmaurice said:
I disagree. I like the sound of my bass, and prefer to hear it and not my speakers.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Plus with amplification chain that has enough EQ and adjustable distortion (or modelling if that's your thing) you can get a huge variety of tones. Distortion is impossible to EQ out, so anything with an inherent distortion spectrum, eg poor quality speakers, is always going to have it's 'own tone'. Similarly for a shaped frequency response; sure you can EQ it out, but it makes more sense to me to have it flat and EQ that in, if and when it's required.
Bob Lee (QSC) said:
"Transparent" would logically describe something that does not alter the sonic characteristics of the signal, aside perhaps from straight amplification. The only true way to determine whether something is reasonably transparent is to compare its output with its input.

In reality, though, many use "transparent" to describe a piece of gear that sounds pleasing without noticeable distortion, whether or not it alters the signal sonically.

"Flat" means a reasonably even and constant frequency response that does not emphasize or suppress any particular audio frequencies or ranges of frequencies. It is an important element of true "transparency."
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
#14
billfitzmaurice said:
I disagree. I like the sound of my bass, and prefer to hear it and not my speakers. I have received many comments from those who've had the opportunity to play a number of instruments through both high quality amp/speaker combinations and run of the mill. Nearly all have said that no matter what you play through a highly colored amp/speaker it always sounds pretty much the same. OTOH, played though an uncolored system cheap instruments sound worse, while good instruments sound better.
Click to expand...
I like that response and agree - I hadn't thought of using the term in that manner. :) I feel more or less the same, one of the reasons I prefer passive basses and run my modern heads/amps mostly flat.

However, my '60s blackface bassman colors the sound pretty heavily and distorts as well, but it sounds like a mother-effer! :) It's about as far from "transparent" as it gets, but it does tend to amplify the natural sound of the instrument somehow. It's a mystery!
 
#15
Philbiker said:
However, my '60s blackface bassman colors the sound pretty heavily and distorts as well, but it sounds like a mother-effer! :) It's about as far from "transparent" as it gets, but it does tend to amplify the natural sound of the instrument somehow. It's a mystery!
Click to expand...

That's a good way of putting it. The EB is a very different beast than a DB. An EB really doesn't have a 'pure sound' (i.e., a pure acoustic tone) that you can use as a gauge when amplifying the signal. For those of us who have spent at least a little time in various studios, plugging a bass into different boards and listening to different monitors can make the same bass sound VERY different, even though those systems were designed to be relatively flat and transparent! There really is no 'absolute tone' to judge an amplification system against in trying to determine its transparency or 'flatness' in the context of the electric bass.

So, the 'natural' sound of most EB's is. IMO and IME, really closer to what we all hear in classic and/or 'good' recordings (i.e., that's what a P Bass sounds like or that's what a J bass sounds like). Of course, those recordings for the most part were made with various mic'd amps, pre's etc. And, to make it all more complicated, various basses and pickups (wood and pickup combinations) have different peaks and valleys, so actually a quite 'voiced' rig can actually result in a more 'transparent' sound based on how our ears have been trained to hear various classic or desired bass tones.

IMO!

Even with the DB, a totally 'flat' system is not necessarily optimal, since mic's and DB pickups are usually quite voiced.

The key is to get a system that makes your bass sound like what you want it to sound like!
 
#18
Not really adding much, but my definition of a "transparent" is that the output can be made indistinguishable from the input, by adjusting nothing but overall gain. In other words, "pure gain and nothing else."

Is it desirable? Not necessarily, but it is a convenient point of departure for engineers to describe systems that are deliberately non transparent.

Is it achievable? It can be achieved in amplifiers and recording systems, by holding deviations from flat response, nonlinearity, phase errors, and noise, below thresholds of audibility. I don't know the state of the art in transparency of speakers, but a system consisting of speakers and electronic EQ may be able to achieve transparency.

In my view, a subjective test under uncontrolled conditions is an unreliable measure of transparency. Measurement is preferable, which could involve electronic test instruments or controlled listening tests. Many engineers argue (and I am inclined to believe) that test equipment is now more sensitive to the human ear, at detecting departures from transparency, barring really odd effects like an amp that whispers "Mary" at barely above the noise floor.
 

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