...could be a clone of anything bass related. I see the most clones in effects, but I know there are many copy basses out there too. amps are not exempt either.
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What is your guilt leval for owning a clone?
- Thread starter Dash Lashes
- Start date
I voted 0 because most pedals built these days are souped up clones. Nothing wrong with clones.
I drawn the line, as do a lot of folks, when someone says theyve built an original circuit claiming its their design but all they did was copy an existing design. Boutique pedals these days are BOOMING with updated versions of circuits from early on.
I drawn the line, as do a lot of folks, when someone says theyve built an original circuit claiming its their design but all they did was copy an existing design. Boutique pedals these days are BOOMING with updated versions of circuits from early on.
Adamixoye
A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?
- Apr 9, 2012
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Even though I agree with yaksonator, I own 2 fulltone pedals, both copies claimed as originals, but there also my 2 favorite dirt pedals , I also own a rat tail/greystache combo pedal both clones of very famous pedals....
do I feel guilty?? Hell no, they are made for better bass response, same with the Joyo American and UD... Behringer cloned all the BOSS pedals..... The only pedals I own that are original designs are my OC2, B7K and my DOD bass overdrive and grunge pedals(I think the grunge was the first bass distortion to have a clean blend), everything else is a copy or based on an older design, or tries to emulate something, no guilt here!!
do I feel guilty?? Hell no, they are made for better bass response, same with the Joyo American and UD... Behringer cloned all the BOSS pedals..... The only pedals I own that are original designs are my OC2, B7K and my DOD bass overdrive and grunge pedals(I think the grunge was the first bass distortion to have a clean blend), everything else is a copy or based on an older design, or tries to emulate something, no guilt here!!
How do you define what is a clone and when does it become a product in its own right that adds something worthwhile that the "original" doesn't offer?
I don't own any exact copies as far as I know, but as others have said many products are derivatives or developments based on earlier products, all legal and above board and therefor no reason for guilt.
Cheap Chinese/Asian outright pirate copies I don't buy, both for quality and ethical reasons.
I don't own any exact copies as far as I know, but as others have said many products are derivatives or developments based on earlier products, all legal and above board and therefor no reason for guilt.
Cheap Chinese/Asian outright pirate copies I don't buy, both for quality and ethical reasons.
Yah its hard to define what is a clone, example pedal like the rat tail which a well known rat based pedal, but if I were to buy the original rat, i won't be able to get the tones that is coming out of my rat tail
They're handy if you need a kidney or spleen.
I will buy a newer model and have it modded. Always support the designer if possible.
Is a circuit like the Big Ear Wood cutter for example a clone? Not to me, it's a design that has been improved upon to achieve a different result, and marketed to retain familiarity. (No affilliation, just a pedal I want, and I could be proven wrong!)
Further to this, the "clones" I do own are either because the pedal is unobtanium, stupidly priced used or built by me! When I do buy something like this, it's from BYOC, GGG or parts I have sourced. One design I have was an original local creation combining three fuzz circuits into one, based on unobtanium and creative use of components.
I also don't mind if someone takes a large pedal, redesigns the board to make it smaller, then says "this is a tubescreamer but smaller". That is something that makes a difference today, and could easily be done by the original maker, but isn't.
No guilt at all, but I'm also not going to support a known clone maker, who is dishonest and unsupportive of their product.
As for amps and guitars; the price has to be right, and the product supported. A P-bass / stingray / jazz clone made by an experienced luthier is not something I would buy unless I became a working musician and had specifics I needed.
Is a circuit like the Big Ear Wood cutter for example a clone? Not to me, it's a design that has been improved upon to achieve a different result, and marketed to retain familiarity. (No affilliation, just a pedal I want, and I could be proven wrong!)
Further to this, the "clones" I do own are either because the pedal is unobtanium, stupidly priced used or built by me! When I do buy something like this, it's from BYOC, GGG or parts I have sourced. One design I have was an original local creation combining three fuzz circuits into one, based on unobtanium and creative use of components.
I also don't mind if someone takes a large pedal, redesigns the board to make it smaller, then says "this is a tubescreamer but smaller". That is something that makes a difference today, and could easily be done by the original maker, but isn't.
No guilt at all, but I'm also not going to support a known clone maker, who is dishonest and unsupportive of their product.
As for amps and guitars; the price has to be right, and the product supported. A P-bass / stingray / jazz clone made by an experienced luthier is not something I would buy unless I became a working musician and had specifics I needed.
Adamixoye
A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?
- Apr 9, 2012
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- Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
I feel zero guilt buying clones and voted as such.Most clones now are built just as good if not better and are cheaper.Alot of ppl feel the need to support originals if there is such a thing anymore.If the originals companies want me to buy their products sell them cheaper.
Send in the clones. There ought to be clones. Don't bother, they're here.
I don't think anyone here is saying that theft of ideas is okay, and I hate to turn this into a hashed-out economics comment/question and I'm neither an electronics nor economics wizard but...
I sincerely don't think this would be nearly as big an issue if these premium pedal/other bass gear manufacturers would more reasonably price their products in the first place. I feel sometimes like they would rather sell half the number of units for twice the price than twice the number for a more "reasonable" profit. Does a Moogerfooger really cost anywhere CLOSE to $475 to make? To me, that's just asking for somebody to make a very similar product that's actually affordable to most musicians.
I sincerely don't think this would be nearly as big an issue if these premium pedal/other bass gear manufacturers would more reasonably price their products in the first place. I feel sometimes like they would rather sell half the number of units for twice the price than twice the number for a more "reasonable" profit. Does a Moogerfooger really cost anywhere CLOSE to $475 to make? To me, that's just asking for somebody to make a very similar product that's actually affordable to most musicians.
That's the way I've always seen it. If you overprice your product, you are begging someone to undercut you. And it will be tough to find any recourse, since your "original" design is usually just a minor tweak out of an electronics textbook, aka completely unable to get a patent.
- Oct 18, 2012
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I don't use pedals at all. I have never and will never buy a clone of a bass or anything else. I buy the real thing or nothing.
I love clones
In all seriousness, I own a klon clone for guitar. Its an awesome od but 200$ awesome, not ten times that like id pay for the original. Besides we all play "clone" music. Its all our take on a style or song or technique, unless one if you guys invented blues, rock, etc O_O
In all seriousness, I own a klon clone for guitar. Its an awesome od but 200$ awesome, not ten times that like id pay for the original. Besides we all play "clone" music. Its all our take on a style or song or technique, unless one if you guys invented blues, rock, etc O_O
I build my own clones often because I can build cheaper than buying new, zero guilt just a little pride.
I think there are a couple categories of clones, here's taking a stab:
- Made from original schematics
- Informed by testing parts on a specific unit
- Made by reinventing a circuit to get a similar sound/output
- Combinations of the above, 'retuned' by ear
- Experiments based off of existing designs
I dunno, I am not a huge fan of encroaching on IP, especially of recent original designs, though that can depend on other factors. Really, any guilt I would feel is more about the cloner's practices, up front honesty, etc than the clone itself. If someone cloned a Dwarfcraft or Infanem pedal and branded it a loving tribute, I'd have a hard time hatin.
- Made from original schematics
- Informed by testing parts on a specific unit
- Made by reinventing a circuit to get a similar sound/output
- Combinations of the above, 'retuned' by ear
- Experiments based off of existing designs
I dunno, I am not a huge fan of encroaching on IP, especially of recent original designs, though that can depend on other factors. Really, any guilt I would feel is more about the cloner's practices, up front honesty, etc than the clone itself. If someone cloned a Dwarfcraft or Infanem pedal and branded it a loving tribute, I'd have a hard time hatin.
A clone would imply an exact copy. With that said, tone and sound characteristics are no longer a factor but rather what is a factor from the OP is a question of moral obligation to the original inventor?
To which my answer would none.
It becomes a question of my sound, not the label stuck to the tool getting the job done.
To which my answer would none.
It becomes a question of my sound, not the label stuck to the tool getting the job done.
