@Feral Feline , everybody knows you don't go full @Feral Feline . But, you still went full @Feral Feline , you really did.
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What is your guilt leval for owning a clone?
- Thread starter Dash Lashes
- Start date
@Feral Feline , everybody knows you don't go full @Feral Feline . But, you still went full @Feral Feline , you really did.
For guilt is in no way associated with anything bass related since I have bought all my gear with my own money..
Wait, I can buy a Centaur on eBay?
Dude, riding that thing to work would be awesome!
Awesome??? As long as you don't get one that likes to chat about their really weird political opinions. Like a NYC/Wash DC Taxi driver.
Imagine, you are riding the Centaur to work. All of a sudden, out of the blue: "You know how the UN is just trying to weaken people's immune response to high fructose sugars in order to counter the donut lobby run by the Free Masons?"
Then, you are stuck with that for the whole trip.
So true! Those pesky rogues! And, for those who are unaware, it's best if you stay well clear of the brown variety.
All spelled out in post #55:
Other than what you have stated in post #55, I have not been able to find anything that substantiates what you have claimed. Please give me a link or google search term I can use. You have really piqued my curiosity.
If the 81% rule does apply, then I want to know what criteria and metrics are used to make that determination. I can see where two individuals or companies could be beating each other up over 80% vs 82%.
-Frank
A clone, by definition, is a 100% copy. But, we have generally accepted that varying degrees of similarity can be considered a clone by some and not others. This is a thousand shades of grey area, like a clone of a clone.
-Frank
-Frank
One of the great things in life is; that we get to set parameters for ourselves in how we think. One of the reasons I like fiddling with bass tone, is that it mimics life, and mimics general thought process in quantifiable ways. ways that seem less complex than reality is somehow.
Other than whatyou have[the OP] stated in post #55, I have not been able to find anything that substantiates what you have claimed. Please give me a link or google search term I can use. You have really piqued my curiosity.
If the 81% rule does apply, then I want to know what criteria and metrics are used to make that determination. I can see where two individuals or companies could be beating each other up over 80% vs 82%.
-Frank
FIXED, sort of.
Hello Frank,
I had not intended to rejoin this thread, but thought I should make it abundantly clear to you and anyone else reading the thread that I am not the originator of the 20% maxim. Just wanted to clarify that I did NOT state anything in post breeding programme, I'm NOT the person who claimed "if a design is within 20% of the original (in any aspect), it's 100% trash" — That was stated by this thread's OP.
However, I Am Guilty of facetiously and falsely reporting that all manufacturers everywhere agreed upon the OP's arbitrary percentage point, and I regret that you may have misconstrued my tongue-firmly-in-cheek collusion of each and every company in the cosmos for anything close to credibility.
For the record, I have nothing but respect for you and your work at FEA Labs, and your work here on TB (the BYOC multi-band compressor mods, for a great example).
I come to TB 80% of the time to learn from those more knowledgeable about all things bass, 20% of the time I will attempt to entertain myself with wordplay. About 20% of my posts are hopefully practical, useful or helpful in some way, such as directing someone to a website pertaining to a product they are searching for or myself asking a question about mA or how to reset a DB's soundpost etc; About 80% of my posts are failed attempts at humour and thus 100% trash.
Some of my posts are an attempt to mix the two percentages, be serious and light-hearted, and contents may have settled during shipping and handling through the Internet ethers, your electron's mileage may vary.
My apologies to you, Frank, if I have errantly piqued your curiosity as pertaining to percentage points of aforementioned so-called colluding companies.
Sincerely,
FF
Why would you want an electron chasing blob of goo?
-Frank
What!?! Are you kidding me?! What pedal-head wouldn't want a clone of you locked away in the basement busily soldering up custom boxes containing their/our/my delusions of FX grandeur.
Well, okay, maybe not locked away. Remember it's not YOU that would be
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There are some novel and original designs for pedals, but I'm not sure that a guitar pedal circuit design can be copyrighted. If it can, then that gives the designer a period of time to make his design a marketable item and provide an income stream. After that window, usually 7 years, it's quite clear that it can be copied and / or modified as a clone. Something like an 808 tube screamer....well lets face it, it's probably THE most cloned or modified circuit there is. It's questionable anyone could mod / hot rod one of these circuits and get a fresh copyright applied to it. But compare that to say a Zen drive or an OCD...they are all original designs. I recently built a Wamper Triple wrecker clone, from a UK kit supplier. After building it, I found that I didn't really like it that much on Bass. So I swapped out the two primary N4148 diodes and replaced with red LED's. I also swapped out the boost circuit for something cleaner. Now I really like it, but it wouldn't be fair to say this was a new design...it's still a Triple Wrecker but with a few mods.
Long version:
Since very few "clones" are actually clones - most are either modified to "improve" some performance aspect or rebuilt to a higher quality spec, I don't know that the question is valid - since if you do any research at all, everything (ESPECIALLY in pedals) is a development of something before it.
However, if you are including counterfeits, that is a different question. The sharp-eyed and photographic memoried out there may remember that I fell into a discussion where I seemed to be defending counterfeits - I was not I was making a point about certain American manufacturers who take out nuisance lawsuits against legitimate copies to the point that the only "competitive" products on the market are out there are those who are willing to work under the radar and counter to the law. Counterfieting is illegal and immoral and should induce at least a little guilt in those who support it. This includes things that claim to be a Gibson or Fender or Rickenbacher or whatever, but which are not authorized by the manufacturer, but also includes things like repainting cheapo pedals and marketing them as "boutique" pedals. This is dishonest - I won't defame the maker who has been caought more than once doing this (especially since I can't remember who and don't want to say the wrong company).
However, as others have suggested a lot of the claims of "cloning" are coming from some so-called "boutique" manufacturers - once your product is an industry standard and there are tens of thousands of your signature model you are no longer boutique... sorry - who claim every similar product to theirs is a clone or worse when their circuits are only slightly modded (though better built) versions of the two or three classics out there.
If your circuit is an ""audiophile" grade version of a Tubescreamer" (the irony of that statement is not lost on me), than if someone makes a "low grade" version of your circuit haven't they changed the circuit as much as you have - only in the opposite direction?
In basses everything in existence owes its existence to some combination of the uprights, guitarron, Fender and/or Spector to some greater or lesser extent. At what point, short of counterfeits, is something a clone?
Short version:
No.
Since very few "clones" are actually clones - most are either modified to "improve" some performance aspect or rebuilt to a higher quality spec, I don't know that the question is valid - since if you do any research at all, everything (ESPECIALLY in pedals) is a development of something before it.
However, if you are including counterfeits, that is a different question. The sharp-eyed and photographic memoried out there may remember that I fell into a discussion where I seemed to be defending counterfeits - I was not I was making a point about certain American manufacturers who take out nuisance lawsuits against legitimate copies to the point that the only "competitive" products on the market are out there are those who are willing to work under the radar and counter to the law. Counterfieting is illegal and immoral and should induce at least a little guilt in those who support it. This includes things that claim to be a Gibson or Fender or Rickenbacher or whatever, but which are not authorized by the manufacturer, but also includes things like repainting cheapo pedals and marketing them as "boutique" pedals. This is dishonest - I won't defame the maker who has been caought more than once doing this (especially since I can't remember who and don't want to say the wrong company).
However, as others have suggested a lot of the claims of "cloning" are coming from some so-called "boutique" manufacturers - once your product is an industry standard and there are tens of thousands of your signature model you are no longer boutique... sorry - who claim every similar product to theirs is a clone or worse when their circuits are only slightly modded (though better built) versions of the two or three classics out there.
If your circuit is an ""audiophile" grade version of a Tubescreamer" (the irony of that statement is not lost on me), than if someone makes a "low grade" version of your circuit haven't they changed the circuit as much as you have - only in the opposite direction?
In basses everything in existence owes its existence to some combination of the uprights, guitarron, Fender and/or Spector to some greater or lesser extent. At what point, short of counterfeits, is something a clone?
Short version:
No.
Thanks for clearing that up for me!
You could have just said... "hey dummy-head, your missing the joke!"If I would have clicked on the #55 post link, I would have caught onto what you were doing. I thought post #55 was referring back to your original 81% statement. You really should run for political office... because I was totally gullible here.
OTOH, if you replace my clones 'regular exercise' program with unlimited Mt. Dew and hot fries you have a deal!
-Frank
I'll address the #55 post.
When I personally judge an object's "value"(value meaning different things to different people), I perfer my judgment to be quantized to a numerical value (in this case a percentage of difference) that I have set for myself. I also set boundarys as a design guide, ultimately fitting requirments. requirements, in the case of wether i understand an object to be different form another object, is that I must understand it to be 20% or greater, change in it's most generally perceived form AND/OR function.
When I personally judge an object's "value"(value meaning different things to different people), I perfer my judgment to be quantized to a numerical value (in this case a percentage of difference) that I have set for myself. I also set boundarys as a design guide, ultimately fitting requirments. requirements, in the case of wether i understand an object to be different form another object, is that I must understand it to be 20% or greater, change in it's most generally perceived form AND/OR function.
I have big ideas about the philosophy in and of a personal value based life i try to lead. I don't expect anyone else to have to sign on to my beliefs or to have to constrain themselves to, or to apply such tolerances to, their lives.
I respect everyone's work here as a lot of it to be far beyond my technical understanding and I don't know of how much a circuit is adjusted, for any reason, or what any legal percentages may or may not be set by anyone anywhere that make anything diferent. In the original question, i'm talking about what personal feelings people have about what equipment they put their money into. not to poke a bee's nest in any way.
I don't know why I asked the question. I wonder what the general pop wants from their clone besides just the money cost? each indevidual must decide what a clone is or isn't it seems.
.I respect everyone's work here as a lot of it to be far beyond my technical understanding and I don't know of how much a circuit is adjusted, for any reason, or what any legal percentages may or may not be set by anyone anywhere that make anything diferent. In the original question, i'm talking about what personal feelings people have about what equipment they put their money into. not to poke a bee's nest in any way
.I don't know why I asked the question. I wonder what the general pop wants from their clone besides just the money cost? each indevidual must decide what a clone is or isn't it seems.
