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What is your job?

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by juancaminos, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. gln1955

    gln1955 Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Ohio, USA
    Fredrik E. Nilsen likes this.
  2. heynorm


    Oct 21, 2010
    Omaha, NE
    I remember playing in a pickup country-ish band at a bar in 1975. We jelled pretty good mixing genres. The owner said we were great. But, not to play blues tunes back-to-back any more. She said the patrons were listening too much and not drinking enough, so much so it was noticed at the register.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  3. juancaminos

    juancaminos Supporting Member

    May 30, 2003
    USA, Phoenix, AZ
    Right I agree and don't get me wrong, I love to hear musicians say that good music is number one, it makes be feel better about the future of music in the establishments that give us the opportunity to play. Believe me it's not an entitlement. In many areas its just barely hanging on. I started this thread with great angst in dealing with some hired musicians who think these establishments (and the bands that hire them) are at their mercy. In reality it couldn't be farther from the truth. I will be the first to to say that live music isn't as good as it used to be for a lot of reasons one being the attitudes of bands that frequent these bars. Revolving door Bands who agree to play for next to nothing. They have no pride in the "scene" of their locale and only care about themselves. Just terrible. When and where I grew up you could go to any party, bar, restaurant that had live music and hear quality music played by happy musicians.

    Now there are so many bars who complain about bands and so many bands who complain about bars. Lots of bar owners have turned into deaf zombies who hire bands with such crappy gear that I personally can't stand a minute of their set. In contrast there are the good who spent thousands of dollars and countless hours in the woodshed to sound good but have to play to people and bartender who just don'r care. It's dismal. Our band just reformed after a 5 year
    sabbatical and half the band says "practice...who cares" where playing for drunks on a crappy stage for crappy pay who have just watched ten crappy bands. I get it, I really do but darn it I WILL NOT BE ONE OF THOSE CRAPPY BANDS! AND I WILL SUPPORT THE BAR AND I WILL SCHLEP WHATEVER IT IS THAT HELPS THEM SURVIVE.

    I'll say it again, it's not an entitlement!
  4. juancaminos

    juancaminos Supporting Member

    May 30, 2003
    USA, Phoenix, AZ
    Let me say that when I started this thread I knew that there would be seven sides to it. I appreciate any and all comments (except the one that personally slammed me), we are all different and I have no intention of busting anyone's chops. I don't know why people have to get so personal on forums, this one included. It's easy to get carried away with the written word, it's like a dog with out a tail. Did you know that dogs with out tails are more likely to have a social life full of strife? But that's another thread for different forum. Have a great Easter everyone. Hail TB!
    Bassbeater likes this.
  5. Great point, and in case you are referring to anything I posted, this being an opinion forum and all, I reserve the right to express mine, especially if someone is implying some unflattering evil, immoral, unethical intent or action on my part when it just ain't necessarily so. I'm sure you agree that demands a reply.

    Just like the Ric threads, there really is no reason to stomp on other people with two feet about how much you hate Rics; it serves no purpose other than provocation. The Carrie Nation routine on this thread is approximately the same thing.

    Bottom line is, I think it's a great thread topic that always deserves rational discussion, and I'm glad you started it. Activists and extremists always have a way of spoiling the punch.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
    juancaminos and Bassbeater like this.
  6. 1st Bass

    1st Bass

    May 26, 2005
    Forest Grove, OR
    Smelled like a troll, to me, but what do I know...
    Torrente Cro likes this.
  7. Couldn't agree more.
  8. Bassbeater

    Bassbeater Guest

    Sep 9, 2001
  9. As a musician you either want to play to an audience or you're happy sitting at home playing for yourself. Both fine and perfectly acceptable options. If you do want to play to an audience, especially these days, like everything in life it comes with stipulations and tradeoffs. If you're unable or unwilling to accept the stipulations and tradeoffs you're likely not going to be playing to live audiences much. That's just the reality of the situation, whether anyone likes it or not. Period.
    aborgman and delta7fred like this.
  10. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    True, but the floor sweeper can do their job with a very simple economic relationship that was originally described by Adam Smith, where they are working solely for self interest. All they need to know is that their pay (or job security, whatever) is tied to the quality of their floor sweeping job. They might not even be aware of what products the bank is actually selling.

    In fact, in the US, many companies outsource their janitorial work to companies that send a cleaning crew, and the crew members may be completely unaware of what the company makes.

    By the way, I have no problem with the idea that the bar owner is hiring a band to boost alcohol sales. They are acting in their own self interest too. But I kinda suspect that a lot of the places that hire my bands, are not doing it for a strict profit motive that might not actually make sense, but because they like live music and want to enjoy providing a good hang.
  11. juancaminos

    juancaminos Supporting Member

    May 30, 2003
    USA, Phoenix, AZ
    I read that book years ago
  12. juancaminos

    juancaminos Supporting Member

    May 30, 2003
    USA, Phoenix, AZ
    No nothing you posted....I don't think. Gee maybe I should go back and look.
  13. juancaminos

    juancaminos Supporting Member

    May 30, 2003
    USA, Phoenix, AZ
    Agreed, I never meant to say or suggest anything about pouring drinks down anyone's throat. Lets not exaggerate the point. Thanks for you pointing that out.
  14. Absolutely. It doesn't make sense to hire a band (and pay them) if you want to make as much money as possible in a bar. But selling alcohol helps to pay for the band.
  15. I see a fairly direct correlation with getting them to open their wallets as often as you can and to drink as much as possible. More money spent equals more booze. What else could it mean in a bar that makes its money from alcohol sales?

    I drink and I happily accept money to play in bars, which comes from alcohol sales. You seem to be trying to read a moral stance into my words that is not there. But why is it so important for me to behave as per post one?

    I'm ok for him to do that stuff. But why do I have to do it? The bands I play with draw a crowd and get repeat work without that sort of thing. It's not me.
  16. This is a good point. Different styles of music, different demographics and so on will probably change your approach. The way I approach a Sunday afternoon jazz or acoustic gig is different from a Saturday night classic rock gig.
  17. I also referred to food sales, pool tables, pinball machines, video games, etc. etc. You conveniently focused on alcohol.

    Also, because people open their wallets often for alcoholic beverages is not automatically a guarantee of some kind of impending disaster or moral dilemma. That implication on your part is an extremist stretch.

    And again, the bar is trying to pay the bills and cover their bottom line, which includes paying the band (which has included paying you). That definitely involves the sale of alcohol at a huge mark-up, there is no way around it. You are conveniently ignoring the fact that when you have played music in drinking establishments, you have helped to sell alcohol. You're no better than anyone else in that respect, so give it a rest.

    You don't want to play in venues that sell alcohol and use live music to facilitate that? Cool, don't and you won't come off like a hypocrite. You don't want to make announcements over the PA encouraging people to order another round? Fine, to each his own. You should repeat that previous sentence a few times and let it sink in.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
    EdO. likes this.
  18. Sigh. I have not said that. I have said the exact opposite. Likewise with many of the other things you have claimed.

    There’s no point trying to discuss with someone who wants to argue against things I didn’t say, and accuse me of a moral high horse I’m not riding.
    Robroy likes this.
  19. My apologies, but you seem to be drawing a distinction between bands and musicians who encourage people to drink in bars (which we all do just by virtue of being there providing an attractive service and commodity for the venue) and bands and musicians who encourage people to recklessly OVER-DRINK in bars (something I'm not sure I've ever seen, a band with that kind of power and control over that many people, making them drink huge volumes of alcohol against their will--even the staff and bartenders are discouraged from doing that). You seem to be saying that the simple acts of encouraging people to have another round a couple of times in a four-hour period, or announcing a drink special, or raising a toast, are bad things, or something like that, and I admit I'm confused. But that is a really big gray area and slippery slope, not sure how you make the distinction between "I'm promoting drinking just enough" and "I'm promoting drinking too much."

    Again, I thought I picked up on your point, but feel free to clarify if you're so inclined.

    Also, I know a few Aussies who need little to no encouragement to drink, so maybe it's a cultural thing? I know a lot of Americans who would sit there and drink water all night like stuffed shirts (to the total disappointment of ownership and staff) if the band didn't remind them that life is short, loosen up and knock one back once in awhile. IME, ownership and staff WILL project that disappointment in various forms toward the entertainment.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  20. juancaminos

    juancaminos Supporting Member

    May 30, 2003
    USA, Phoenix, AZ
    We hand the bar owner or head bar tender a questionair. It asks what the drink specials are, what the food specials are, who the bartenders, waitresses and cooks are (names). Any other specials? We also ask whats happening that week end and the week to come. We then announce these things at opportune times during the night. We thank people for dancing pointing out any special dance talents, we hand out beads, we do sing alongs, talk to the patrons (involve them in the fun). We used to hand out band tee shirts and lapel pins. We hand out noise makers and blow up guitars and more. That my friends is a full service band that gets call backs. And you thought we just forced people to drink...HA!
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
    electracoyote likes this.

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