What makes a good bassist ?

[caeman]

What makes a good bassist ? In your opinion and what makes the greats ( jaco, Wooten , Clarke ) special ?

The collective opinion of other players.

 

[Valerus]

Groove, rhythm and adaptability.

 

[rtslinger]

I think most of it was cover but I would like to add stepping out of the shadows and and shining not only as a bass player but as a musician who has mastered his craft and his/her playing is recognizable as was James Jamerson imo.

 

[suraci]

I can't fully agree with you here. Although I am the supportive type of bass player that you describe here (I love playing repetitious-groove oriented songs), I can't say that is the only way to play bass. That is just too limiting.

However, in a band situation, you have to play what is right for the song. In most pop/rock/R&B songs, I find the majority of the bass lines are repetitive, and are there to support the vocals and/or soloist. Some are more complicated than others, but the best ones fit the song. Not like a previous poster's story of someone performing fretboard gymnastics over "Evil Ways".

Ok, fine.. occasionally the strong safety intercepts the football.
How many gigs have you played where you were not MAINLY ( as in large majority of the time- as in 90% of the time ) limited to playing roots, with fifths and thirds and an ostinato, and all of that? How often are you the melody guy?
With respect... as long as you play the lowest pitched instrument, you are likely to play the lowest note. And the lowest note HAS to be the root in the large majority of cases.
And If you are playing the roots down low, which we agree, sounds great to us, we cannot simultaneously being a melody guy.

 

[ksandvik]

Make a bad band sound good.

 

[suraci]

And nothing makes a band sound good like beautiful tone- not too loud.. that is in perfect timing, landing on a root or fifth. A band sounds poorly for any number of reasons- but two are mud, and timing. And nothing is less muddy than a bass on a low root tone.

 

[lfmn16]

A bass player has a role. It is an inherent role- inherent in the NATURE of his instrument- the lowest notes in the band. He plays the lowest pitches. This naturally leads to playing the roots of the chords; the fifth, passing tones etc, are all subservient to playing roots of the chords.

He is not a soloist like a guitar is.

There is a perverse tendency in todays society for EQUALITY.

Playing bass is for people who like to support others.

Remember roots are very very very very repetitious and melodies and variations on a melody are endlessly varied. Clear? If that makes you in any way uncomfortable, don't play bass, play guitar or clarinet.

You have to master that simple line. It takes years to get more and more into those four or so notes. THAT is bass playing!

I wish this was meant as a joke but I think it's serious - and wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to begin. This type of post makes me think of Muslim women who talk about how liberating wearing a Burka is and how great Islam is for women.

If someone thinks their role is to play roots and fifths all night, that is their business, but don't try to limit those of us who aspire to an equal role in a band.

I don't understand why some people are so threatened by those of us who want to expand the role of the bass in modern music and build on what the great players who came before us did. I know that there are other players on TB who also refuse to be limited by other's antiquated ideas of what a bass player should be.

 

[ksandvik]

Yes, each song has its own tonality and style that is perfect and the good bassist knows by intuition what this is. It has nothing to do with roots and fifths and playing like a robot.

 

[Buxtehude]

I don't play in any band where I don't have an equal voice. You can be a musical serf if you wish.

 

[Buxtehude]

Ok, fine.. occasionally the strong safety intercepts the football.
How many gigs have you played where you were not MAINLY ( as in large majority of the time- as in 90% of the time ) limited to playing roots, with fifths and thirds and an ostinato, and all of that? How often are you the melody guy?
With respect... as long as you play the lowest pitched instrument, you are likely to play the lowest note. And the lowest note HAS to be the root in the large majority of cases.
And If you are playing the roots down low, which we agree, sounds great to us, we cannot simultaneously being a melody guy.

You clearly haven't listened to a string quartet. Even 300 years ago the cello was getting a share of the melodic and solo action while still providing a stable bassline. Broaden your ears and expand your role in the music. We aren't playing football. It's a flawed analogy.

 

[suraci]

Why are you taking my words, which are fact based ( bassed ) as a negative?
The concept of equality and fairness are distorted in society. I am playing with those concepts.. I am teasing about them.
The whole idea of equality is greatly over rated- so keep taking the bait.

I love playing bass... I have never once associated it with serfdom.
I also am a multi instrumentalist. So I know music from multi perspectives.

Being on top or on the bottom is all an illusion.
But one thing is not an illusion... bass playing is inextricably aligned with roots of chords.

 

[Buxtehude]

I wish this was meant as a joke but I think it's serious - and wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to begin. This type of post makes me think of Muslim women who talk about how liberating wearing a Burka is and how great Islam is for women.

If someone thinks their role is to play roots and fifths all night, that is their business, but don't try to limit those of us who aspire to an equal role in a band.

I don't understand why some people are so threatened by those of us who want to expand the role of the bass in modern music and build on what the great players who came before us did. I know that there are other players on TB who also refuse to be limited by other's antiquated ideas of what a bass player should be.

+ 1000. You sir are now officially my favorite TB member. There seem to be plenty of Burka wearers in this forum. We can do all those things like holding down roots when appropriate but we can do so much more. Very well said. You are a true ambassador for our instrument.

 

[suraci]

"broaden my ears" give me a break. You are misunderstanding my points.
Check out What is Hip...
Or compare the number of seconds your favorite recordings have a bass player on each of the 12 notes in the scale, as compared to the horn, or singer, and get back to me. edit. on each chord, who spends the most time by a wide margin either playing the root, or a line that emphasizes the root.
What do you think makes a bass player great in the first place? His skill at this role. the very greatest are the ones who play extensions beyond roots. But that is the more advanced stage of bass playing. Judging by what I hear among players, I would say most ought to go back a stage or two, and learn to lock it down, with roots, and groove the way the earlier cats did.

Let's TRY to keep this civil. up until this bump on the dialogue, this has been an enlightening exchange of ideas.

 

[ksandvik]

Being on top or on the bottom is all an illusion.
But one thing is not an illusion... bass playing is inextricably aligned with roots of chords.

It would be fun listening to jazz music where the bass lines are forced to be alined with roots. Maybe a Zappa-like rule-enforced composition...

 

[lfmn16]

+ 1000. You sir are now officially my favorite TB member. There seem to be plenty of Burka wearers in this forum. We can do all those things like holding down roots when appropriate but we can do so much more. Very well said. You are a true ambassador for our instrument.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm not trying to stop anyone from wearing a Burka, I'm just trying to stop them from telling me that I have to wear one.

 

[suraci]

Why not actually investigate the topic.
Listen to a bass player and observe how often he is playing the tyrannical root, why dontcha

 

[Duckwater]

A great bass player is one who does something musically unique with their instrument

 

[lfmn16]

Why are you taking my words, which are fact based ( bassed ) as a negative?

Sorry, but you are mistaking your opinions for facts.

A bass player has a role. It is an inherent role- inherent in the NATURE of his instrument- the lowest notes in the band. The role of the bass player playing roots and fifths is inherited, not inherent. There are many possible roles, therefore which role a bass player should choose is a matter of opinion, not fact.

His role is subservient to the soloists. He is not a soloist like a guitar is. This is also opinion, not fact. Many great players play solos.

Playing bass is for people who like to support others. Actually there are many bass players who play an equal role in bands.

You have to master that simple line. It takes years to get more and more into those four or so notes. THAT is bass playing! Again, opinion, not fact.

 

[Mystic Michael]

What makes a good bassist? In your opinion and what makes the greats (jaco, Wooten, Clarke) special?

These are two separate - and not necessarily related - questions...

To the first, it is the same range of qualities that makes any good musician...a good musician: sensitivity, taste, good judgment, the ability to learn, an intuitive awareness of what "works" and what does not, dedication, drive, practice, etc. etc.

To the second, a great musician - again, this applies to more than just bassists - is one who has found a way to transcend the basic, generic requirements of musicianship - to inject something of his own personality and spirit into his playing, so as to thereby make his playing stylistically distinct, even unique...

MM

 

[Mystic Michael]

A bass player has a role. It is an inherent role- inherent in the NATURE of his instrument- the lowest notes in the band. He plays the lowest pitches. This naturally leads to playing the roots of the chords; the fifth, passing tones etc, are all subservient to playing roots of the chords.
A bass player gradually learns to master playing roots of chords in the most interesting, grooving, creative way. His role is subservient to the soloists. He is not a soloist like a guitar is.
Consider this. The roots of the chords are VERY VERY repetitious. The melodies played above ( above, in volume or certainly, at the very least, above in pitch ) the bass players roots, are FAR fAR FAR more varied. Is that clear?
There is a perverse tendency in todays society for EQUALITY. Equality in many applications of that word, is a lie, if there ever was one.
There is NOT equality between a solo instrument and the rhythm section.
So get equality and "fairness" OUT of your mind. Playing bass is for people who like to support others. Think of offensive quauterback and defensive safety, for a good analogy.
You have to LOVE to hit people if you are standing around all day waiting for the ball carrier to run near by you.
Running the ball, vs catching and stopping the ball carrier are NOT the same role... NOT equal... and in an idiots mind, not FAIR lol .
Ditto for soloists who carry the melody vs bass players who essentially play the same old roots night after night.. you really have to LOVE IT.
Remember roots are very very very very repetitious and melodies and variations on a melody are endlessly varied. Clear? If that makes you in any way uncomfortable, don't play bass, play guitar or clarinet lol.

EDIT re Santana and Latin flavor bass. Listen to Latin bass lines... talk about repetition. Listen to Oye O coma va ( wronmg spelling ) that is a great, but super simple bass line. You have to master that simple line. It takes years to get more and more into those four or so notes. THAT is bass playing!

I can only comment that these remarks come across as very dogmatic. And that any kind of dogma is antithetical to the spirit of music...

It's not a zero-sum game. It really is possible to hold down the bottom end and play a good share of roots...AND to play with a distinctive, innovative style that adds much to the overall sound of the band. A lot of this will vary from one genre of music to another, even from one individual song to another...

MM