Double Bass What Makes A Great Bluegrass Bassist?

[colliningram]

With my first year of being a music major done as of today I am eagerly looking forward to this summer and the extra practice time I am going to have. One of the things I have been chomping at the bit to do is embrace that proverbial "Boom Chuck" side of my personality. It sounded easy enough in my head however when I was writing out my summer practice schedule this afternoon I realized I had few ideas of what I could do to get some serious Bluegrass Chops. I spent a good deal of time considering what makes me like my favorite bluegrass players. The conclusion I came to was that in fact, with adequate rehearsal time, I could probably play in most of my favorite bluegrass bands and so could a plethora of good jazz and classical players. After considering this for a while I was forced to dismiss that view as ignorant and cocky on my part. There had to be something I was missing.

When it comes right down to it I think 10 years down the road I would rather be associated with the bluegrass community than the jazz or classical communities but I am at a loss to figure out what I need to do to make that happen.

Jazz has always been kinda cut and dry for me: Develop great technical proficiency, and be as creative as you possibly can. That being said, I feel there is somewhat of a limit to how creative you can be with even a 7 or 8 chord bluegrass song without getting in the way of the other musicians. This leads me to wonder what put guys like Todd Parks, Mike Bub, Travis Book, Byron House etc. above the rest of the crowd.

FYI: My current ideas for practicing consist of:

1.Playing to various bluegrass feels to different metronome settings
eg. Imaging the metronome beep as the 3rd sixteenth note of of the beat and playing the two feel on the beat.

2. Spending time ear training by playing along with recordings I am unfamiliar with.

3. Exploring the ability to play fiddle tunes and fiddle tune variations on bass with the bow. (French or German, what do you think?)

4. Spending time working on bluegrass slap.

5. Working on bluegrass improvisation.

I know that may sound like a lot but i cant feel like I'm missing something. Any ideas?

 

[punkozuna]

A BG bass "truism" is that is hard to underplay the bass and very easy to overplay it.

 

[KStewart]

A BG bass "truism" is that is hard to underplay the bass and very easy to overplay it.

+1

Less is always more.

Colliningram: You may be over-thinking bluegrass too much. Listen to the old stuff, with some of the newer stuff. Take what you learn from those recordings and go play and have fun. Sit in with some dudes and jam for many hours. That's the best way to learn any music.

 

[derridiandrift]

1. Be less methodical about it.
2. Bluegrass is music+social setting. Find people to jam with and ask them what you should be listening to.
3. Be humble, admit to them that you don't know how to approach it. They'll show you the way.

 

[M Ramsey]

inventive restraint. Listen to some Todd Phillips and Marshall Wilborn and over the past twenty years, the work that Barry Bales has done with Alison Krauss is not to be overlooked.

Todd Phillips-1st 4 Bluegrass Album Band recordings

Marshall Wilborn-latter Johnson Mountain Boys, Lynn Morris Band recordings (she's his wife) Longview (on Rounder) and recently Michael Cleveland & Flamekeeper.

Mark Schatz-Tony Rice Unit recordings and latter Bluegrass Album Band recordings (all these on Rounder)

 

[ERIC A]

I was told by a fairly well know blues guitarist that the best blues bassist is a player who just loves the blues. I think that applies to Bluergrass as well. There are not many bass players (especially jazz players) who are willing to play in a very minimal way all night long, but that is what the music calls for. You have to be willing to play simple and just groove. What separates the "gods" from the mortals? I would like to know myself. It could be, right place, right time, great vocals, easy to work with, great ear etc..Obviously a player with god given talent, over one without, is a given.

 

[shadygrove]

If you haven't seen this previous thread already, there are some great posts on the topic here ...

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f179/what-makes-good-bluegrass-bassist-590436/

 

[MT Spaces]

With my first year of being a music major done as of today I am eagerly looking forward to this summer ...

The conclusion I came to was that in fact, with adequate rehearsal time, I could probably play in most of my favorite bluegrass bands and so could a plethora of good jazz and classical players. After considering this for a while I was forced to dismiss that view as ignorant and cocky on my part. There had to be something I was missing ....

When it comes right down to it I think 10 years down the road I would rather be associated with the bluegrass community than the jazz or classical communities but I am at a loss to figure out what I need to do to make that happen ...

Jazz has always been kinda cut and dry for me: Develop great technical proficiency, and be as creative as you possibly can ....

My current ideas for practicing consist of:

1.Playing to various bluegrass feels to different metronome settings
eg. Imaging the metronome beep as the 3rd sixteenth note of of the beat and playing the two feel on the beat.

2. Spending time ear training by playing along with recordings I am unfamiliar with.

3. Exploring the ability to play fiddle tunes and fiddle tune variations on bass with the bow. (French or German, what do you think?)

4. Spending time working on bluegrass slap.

5. Working on bluegrass improvisation.

I know that may sound like a lot but i cant feel like I'm missing something. Any ideas?

Whoa Cody-Boy ... I can tell that You Are Enthusiastic ! Betsy ... Hide the Horses. Your Attitude is a Good Thang. All of your 1-through-5 ideas are Excellent. Keep It Up Pal.

I live in Bozeman not too-far away from you. I searched your Profile and it seems that you will be playing with some bands in Clark Wyoming in the not-too-distant Future. Maybe I will make it down for that. Jalan Crossland (and his cute-gals on dancing, back-up vocals, and weird rhythm instruments) is My Hero.

I took-up playing upright at age 55 and I turn 60 next Tuesday (same birthday as Bob Dylan ... 10 years apart). As far as bluegrass, old-time fiddle tunes, old-country, and roots like cajun and blues ... Breathe Deeply ... Listen to the Changes ... Play Simple and On Time (which is subtle ... A little ahead for bluegrass and fiddle tunes and a little behind for old country and blues) ... And all will be well with your Band-Mates.

Keep it Simple and Strong on upright at first. The rest will come later. For Inspiration .... Listen to and watch Paul Kowert with The Punch Brothers to see what is possible on upright bass. Totally awesome stuff ... But I will not call what he does .... "Bluegrass Bass" ... And he is probably happy that I said that and is Just Fine with my opinion . Not that My Opinion really-matters.

Join-up at Bass and Bluegrass ... Invalid Link Removed ... There are Bass Folks over there that might have other advice.

IMO .... Bass-slapping and improv ain't really all-that-necessary if you got a hot bluegrass band with 3-part harmony singing, excellent banjo, flat-pick guitar, mando, fiddle, and dobro. Us bass-players sometimes have the luxury of just being a supporting member and enjoying what all the others are doing. If you haven't watched the Todd Phillips and Barry Bales bass teaching videos ... They are a good place to start.

Give me a shout sometime and come to The Bozone. Lately I have been playing 3-4 times a week at bluegrass jams and I have picked-up some paying gigs by just playing simple and strong. I see you play a Cremona. I have 2 basses (soon to be 3 basses) Kay, Epiphone (and American Standard) that might race-your-motor compared to a Cremona. I also have a spare room if you would like to visit sometime. You can play my basses and I will play "bluegrass harmonica" (Yeah ... Yeah ... I know there is no-such-thing as bluegrass harmonica ... But I do it anyhow ... And I am good at it).

I will teach you what I know in about 10 minutes and then you can spend the next 4 hours teaching me what you know as a trained musician who thinks too-damn-much !!

inventive restraint. Listen to some Todd Phillips and Marshall Wilborn and over the past twenty years, the work that Barry Bales has done with Alison Krauss is not to be overlooked.

Todd Phillips-1st 4 Bluegrass Album Band recordings

Marshall Wilborn-latter Johnson Mountain Boys, Lynn Morris Band recordings (she's his wife) Longview (on Rounder) and recently Michael Cleveland & Flamekeeper.

Mark Schatz-Tony Rice Unit recordings and latter Bluegrass Album Band recordings (all these on Rounder)

Oh Yeah ... And Listen to what Mr. Slim Pickins just suggested.

 

[Damon Rondeau]

Another idea for developing bluegrass competence: singing. Learn tunes, learn to sing harmony parts -- work on your "high lonesome". What's it got to do with bass-playing? It's all about the feel. Plus, you won't be worrying about how hip your bass parts are when you're also devoting brain bandwidth to singing a great part. Root-five will be just fine in that scenario.

As others have mentioned, it sounds like you might be over-intellectualizing. This music is all about feel and sound. Yeah, sure, for the flat-pickers and mandolinists and (shudder) banjo players, it's also about sounding great when soloing but that's them, not you: they absolutely need you down there holding the net.

Learn a pile of tunes. A PILE of tunes. Learn to sing them. Immerse yourself in the music and the feel. What a lot of pleasure you're gonna have doing that! Learn how the Louvin Brothers, as just one example, can make your spine tingle just by the way they blend their voices. It's such a simple musical element, but that's High Lonesome right there and you have a chance to be part of that, but not by worrying about how musically sophisticated your bass parts are. If you come from the jazz world, this is your chance to relax a bit and just enjoy the simpler things in life. They really can be finer...

 

[MR PC]

What Damon said!

I'd add that being absolutely able and confident of placing the root note on the begining of "one" with a minimum, or even without using passing notes is essential. Be in charge of the chord changes.

 

[Nohandles]

In a few words. Solid 1/5 and right on time with a little ginger bread at the appropriate time.

 

[MT Spaces]

Another idea for developing bluegrass competence: singing. Learn tunes, learn to sing harmony parts -- work on your "high lonesome" .... It's all about the feel. ....

This music is all about feel and sound ... Yeah, sure, for the flat-pickers and mandolinists and (shudder) banjo players ..

it's also about sounding great when soloing but that's them, not you: they absolutely need you down there holding the net ....

Learn a pile of tunes. A PILE of tunes. Learn to sing them ....

... If you come from the jazz world, this is your chance to relax a bit and just enjoy the simpler things in life ....

Holy Carp . Mr. D'Mon D'Rounder has advice that is PriceLess . If you can't sang (quiet-like) the lead melody as you play upright right-where you need to-be or have a solid-steady harmony-voice on the 3 or 5 or 7 as you play ... Then I guess you have to leave it the The Damn (Shudder) Banjo Player !

It's not like I can do-that ... Playing a solid upright bassline in bluegrass and singing (lead or harmony) is Tough ..... At least for me. A friend of mine Reeves Petroff (about my age .... 60) ... Who served in Iraq in The Green Zone and plays real-fine dobro. ....

Well .... Reeves's Son grew-up steeped in music where I live. He was a good slab-bass player in the local High School Band in Montana. Also a good slab player in local rock'n'roll and blues bands. But he also had fun playing my Kay upright when he had a chance. He made the Big-Time ....

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Where was I ??? Oh Yeah .... Andrew worked at several music stores in Nashville paying his dues and played bass with other Nashvegas road bands including Steel Magnolia ...

And he told me that (if) you can play fine (and interesting) upright bass and sing strong lead vocals and harmonys ... You can find many-many gigs in Nash Vegas Tennessee ! That is a Long Ways from Montana ... I sing not-worth-raccoon-crap. Those NashVegas Gigs might have to go to someone else (for damn-sure) .

 

[MR PC]

Great post MT. There is interesting.....then there is too interesting though! Sorta like walking a tightrope, and trying hard to be noticed.

 

[MT Spaces]

Great post MT. There is interesting.....then there is too interesting though! Sorta like walking a tightrope, and trying hard to be noticed.

You are so-sweet Mr. PC .... Sorry to be "too-interesting" Pal. Tightrope ... My arse. I type and express my opinions and tell stories stream-of-consciousness and stream-of-how-many-beers I drank late on any given night .

I will try to stop trying to be noticed .... Especially by you . You are a PITA. Do you actually play bluegrass music or do you just troll this little corner of TB to bring people down . KMA .... Whoever you really are.

P.S.

.... I'd add that being absolutely able and confident of placing the root note on the begining of "one" with a minimum, or even without using passing notes is essential. Be in charge of the chord changes.

That is Truly Profound Mr. PC . Duh ?? You really are a bluegrass bass-player I guess.

I know I only-learned grammer and punctuation here in Montana in grade-school . I had some good teachers. I think your comment would read-better this-way .... "I'd add that being absolutely able and confident of placing the root note on the beginning of "one" as a minimum, without using passing notes, is essential." Carry On.

 

[OmnitzGarima]

A BG bass "truism" is that is hard to underplay the bass and very easy to overplay it.

Yeah, definitely.

Moonshine helps.

 

[boombloom]

The basics. They are hard. It's alot harder to play solid simple than most folks understand. Tone, drive. Stuff like that. And here's the key to it all---bluegrass is highly formulaic. In 4/4 the bass plays 1 and 3. Folks who don't know any theory call it the boom. The mandolin does the chuck. Stand next to a good mando picker at a jam and leave that metronome behind unless you can teach it to play like you do. (Zen I know but it makes sense). This is the cake of bluegrass bass. Don't worry about the icing yet. Sure--audiences love lots of slap and hot solos but you won't get a gig with a good band until you've got the basics.

 

[buffalobillh]

Listen to plenty of bluegrass music. Listen to learn, but also listen for enjoyment. Be fulfilled by what bluegrass is.

As was stated before, bluegrass (at least at the roots level) is social. Not as many front porches to pick on out in the West as there are in the Old States (or folks to pick with), but that experience is invaluable. My specialty is Western Swing which is dance music that originated in west Texas. Someone would get the fiddle out, roll back the rug, and folks would dance. Or out in the barn. If someone had a guitar or mandolin or whatever, they joined in. Not much of that going on in living rooms in Texas anymore (we have dancehalls for that), but I got my experience picking around the house with family and friends. I listened to and enjoyed lots of recordings and got to sit in with some area bands. I'm sure bluegrass pickers have similar experiences. Find you a front porch or a living room somewhere and enjoy. You'll learn a lot.

Simple is good, but not simple-minded. Play intuitively. Bass has a function in every type of music. It's not always 1-5 1-5 1-5... Even when it is, your feel, your drive, your groove, etc. is an integral, serious part of the music, even if the changes don't seem so serious. Being a good or great musician(communicator) doesn't require technical prowess as much as it requires feel, awareness, and selflessness. (How's that for Zen, Boombloom?)

Good luck and God's blessings on your venture into a truly wonderful and fulfilling music!

Bill

 

[brianrost]

Just be glad that in bluegrass today the bass player is no longer expected to be the comedian in of the band.

Link Removed

 

[Feral Feline]

Just be glad that in bluegrass today the bass player is no longer expected to be the comedian in of the band...

Well Sheepdip! If that's the case, then I quit. :scowl:

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Well Sheepdip! If that's the case, then I quit. :scowl:

Damn right, bluegrass is just WAY too ****ing earnest these days.

And in the immortal words of P.J. O'Rourke "Earnestness is just stupidity that went to college."