So, being a technical jazz metal bassist, this question has popped up several times for me, and after several times of not being able to give a definite answer, I ask Talkbass. What makes a song technical on bass? Thanks for any answers you can give.
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What makes a song technical?
- Thread starter Felix Riley
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The Kiwanis club gives dictionaries to the 3rd grade each year. I've found these to be simple and to the point; so --- Technical - having knowledge of a mechanical or scientific subject. I take that to say if the bass part is technical, that it is mechanical. Does not deviate from accepted rules.
My first reaction to the question was if a piece is technical it would be complicated, after reading what the dictionary had to say, perhaps not.
My first reaction to the question was if a piece is technical it would be complicated, after reading what the dictionary had to say, perhaps not.
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IMHO any tune that has more than 3 chords, changes time signature
during the piece and has complex licks.
during the piece and has complex licks.
There is no answer. Technical implies complexity and difficulty but how complex and difficult it has to be is subjective.
As in: who cares
Jazz metal? Kill me now
As in: who cares
Jazz metal? Kill me now
IMO what makes a song "technical" comes down to the player's experience, and his/her ability to perform it cleanly and smoothly. To a beginner, a simple root/5 C&W song could be deemed to be "technical".
I agree with "brianrost" in that the topic is subjective.
I agree with "brianrost" in that the topic is subjective.
If you listen to an instrument part in a song.......and you can't play it.....then it's technical.
Same could be said for posting on the "Talk Bass" forum.
Conversing and receiving information on TalkBass may be more helpful than practicing in a lot of ways. Splitting hairs is not.
Unfortunately, we have to label ourselves these days. Who knew there could possibly be 51+ genders????Whatever makes you happy I guess.
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OP, you define it for yourself. To me, it is very defined part (not a "jam" where everyone does his/her/insert gender here own thing). Those parts tend to be more advanced, technique wise. But that's just me.
All snarky answers aside, genre labels are often just a result of people's immediate reaction to it rather than some kind of predefined formula. What makes something "technical" metal? It's really your ears.
But if you need to put a fine point in it, I would say the amount of movement the composition has tends to be a factor, as well as the complexity of the arrangement. These days its hard for me to think of any technical metal bands that are outside the "extreme metal" fields, so if growled vocals and rapid fire drums aren't your thing, these examples are for you. As an example you could take a band like Nile or Obscura vs. the godfathers of grind Napalm Death.
In ND the guitar(s) and bass are almost always in unison, the guitar is playing pretty straight forward chords, and the bass is following the root. The movements are quick, but rarely break from that unison playing or run through scales as they pass through the root notes. Also, the arrangements of the songs are fairly straight forward, with some minor changes in tempo.
Nile does have a lot of unison playing, especially the bass which is generally buried in the mix. However, they have a lot of highly intricate runs through modes that are more exotic than just major and minor, the the composition of their songs is often so complex that if there is a "riff", they rarely use one more than once. Finally, and they incorporate instruments that are typical of the genre in passages of their songs that are borrowed from decidedly non-metal sources and blend them into their compositions.
Obscura is almost fusion jazz on a steady diet of anger and Red Bull. Their compositions and orchestrations are very complex, with both guitars and the bass frequently all playing different things at the same time. They play musical modes more common in jazz or classical in a metal way, with heavy distortion and blast beats, while not killing the feel of those modes.
Hope that helps.
But if you need to put a fine point in it, I would say the amount of movement the composition has tends to be a factor, as well as the complexity of the arrangement. These days its hard for me to think of any technical metal bands that are outside the "extreme metal" fields, so if growled vocals and rapid fire drums aren't your thing, these examples are for you. As an example you could take a band like Nile or Obscura vs. the godfathers of grind Napalm Death.
In ND the guitar(s) and bass are almost always in unison, the guitar is playing pretty straight forward chords, and the bass is following the root. The movements are quick, but rarely break from that unison playing or run through scales as they pass through the root notes. Also, the arrangements of the songs are fairly straight forward, with some minor changes in tempo.
Nile does have a lot of unison playing, especially the bass which is generally buried in the mix. However, they have a lot of highly intricate runs through modes that are more exotic than just major and minor, the the composition of their songs is often so complex that if there is a "riff", they rarely use one more than once. Finally, and they incorporate instruments that are typical of the genre in passages of their songs that are borrowed from decidedly non-metal sources and blend them into their compositions.
Obscura is almost fusion jazz on a steady diet of anger and Red Bull. Their compositions and orchestrations are very complex, with both guitars and the bass frequently all playing different things at the same time. They play musical modes more common in jazz or classical in a metal way, with heavy distortion and blast beats, while not killing the feel of those modes.
Hope that helps.
Generally I consider 'technicality' to be the precision with which a passage of music is notated. This applies to all harmonies, simple or complex, or all passages, fast or slow.
For example a melody that may be sung easily by ear, with a swing feel may be notated in straight eighth notes, and a "swing feel" or eighth note doublet = dotted eighth-eighth triplet disclaimer on the page. This to me is not technical.
By comparison, the same melody, in straight notation, would be technical. It might switch between notated dotted-eighth-eighth triplets and dotted-eighth-sixteenth notes in places depending on the context of the phrase, for example.
So bottom line, if the notation attempts to convey most of the nuances of the phrase, then it is technical. If it is simplified, whether or not there is a "swing" or other global modifier, then it isn't technical.
Something that is simply hard to play may be very simple notation-wise, and isn't really technical. It's just hard to play.
For example a melody that may be sung easily by ear, with a swing feel may be notated in straight eighth notes, and a "swing feel" or eighth note doublet = dotted eighth-eighth triplet disclaimer on the page. This to me is not technical.
By comparison, the same melody, in straight notation, would be technical. It might switch between notated dotted-eighth-eighth triplets and dotted-eighth-sixteenth notes in places depending on the context of the phrase, for example.
So bottom line, if the notation attempts to convey most of the nuances of the phrase, then it is technical. If it is simplified, whether or not there is a "swing" or other global modifier, then it isn't technical.
Something that is simply hard to play may be very simple notation-wise, and isn't really technical. It's just hard to play.
All the information in the world is useless unless you apply it to the bass.
Some more hair splitting for ya !!!
As said it is subjective to your experience. When you first pick up a bass it is all technical because you cannot coordinate your fingers to play what you hear. So to every new player everything is technical.
So everthing will be technical at somepoint, then it will not.
If you are truely learning then you will feel out your depth very regularly as far as technical is concerned because you do not understand, or know how to cope with playing it. Once you learn to play it it is no longer technical to you, but it will still be considered technical to those who cannot.
So everthing will be technical at somepoint, then it will not.
If you are truely learning then you will feel out your depth very regularly as far as technical is concerned because you do not understand, or know how to cope with playing it. Once you learn to play it it is no longer technical to you, but it will still be considered technical to those who cannot.
Oh trust me, I listen to Dream Theater, and I aspire to be as good as John Myung one day.listen/watch too Dream Theater play, now thats technical
