What makes an expensive bass expensive?

[pnchad]

don't hate out of jealously - I have many high-end basses (and older favs like Fenders) I took care of biz & responsibilities - it took a lifetime

when I played full time I owned a 76 P or a 77 J ONLY for 25 yrs - each I bought new at the time foe $250 or less and that was a fortune - it's all relative

 

[Hobobob]

Is it me or does Fodera always pop up in these expensive or overpriced threads? I think it's been stated 1000,s of times.. They are what they are relatively speaking. If you can afford there extreme pricing you think they are amazing. If you can't. You think they are crazy...that's me

To the Op.. I don't think it's any more than marketing and supply and demand... Vinny was brilliant to hook up with Wooten...now he has a nice endorsement base and followers who think owning them will give them the same skill set..it's brilliant

Fodera keeps coming up because of people like you who think they know why they're so expensive, but really couldn't be farther from the truth. Jason was kind enough to break it down in a thread like this a while ago. Perhaps if you did a search (or someone was kind enough to link the post) you could educate yourself instead of posting baseless opinions.

 

[pnchad]

here's an interesting way to look at it

in the classical or even jazz music world GREAT talents develop with ordinary or even sub-ordinary TOOLS (read E. Spaulding's bio about humble beginnings)

when they achieve appropriate respect folks want to hear the finest talents on the finest TOOLS

many great classical players play instruments they couldn't possibly afford to own -they are loaned to them by benefactors who are investing in an art form

given the best player and the resources, they will always reach for perfection

 

[adi77]

Believe me, I play & practice a lot more songs that were recorded with a Fender or a Stingray than with a custom boutique. That doesn't mean that I won't personally go for an instrument that fits me better than a stock P or J bass. I can track & gig all day long with a fender, but it will be far more personally enjoyable with the custom. That's really what it's all about to me.

cool.. for me its more about what i record rather than what i record with i have an active j, a passive j, a yamaha rbx, an ibanez ergodyne, ibanez gary willis signature and a peter perreira handmade (musicman style). they are all i expect from them and more i love em all..
BTW i love custom basses as well.. maybe i'll get one soon.. but i don't think it will improve my playing... i will (hopefully)

 

[Hobobob]

cool.. for me its more about what i record rather than what i record with i have an active j, a passive j, a yamaha rbx, an ibanez ergodyne, ibanez gary willis signature and a peter perreira handmade (musicman style). they are all i expect from them and more i love em all..
BTW i love custom basses as well.. maybe i'll get one soon.. but i don't think it will improve my playing... i will (hopefully)

It probably won't improve your playing unless it improves your practicing. That's what I think the secret is to getting a really nice bass - you end up wanting to play it all the time, which will obviously make you better. Then, you take your new confidence on your instrument and start trying things you've never tried before, which also makes you better. Of course this can occur on a cheap bass too. It just depends on what pushes your buttons.

 

[adi77]

It probably won't improve your playing unless it improves your practicing. That's what I think the secret is to getting a really nice bass - you end up wanting to play it all the time, which will obviously make you better. Then, you take your new confidence on your instrument and start trying things you've never tried before, which also makes you better. Of course this can occur on a cheap bass too. It just depends on what pushes your buttons.

?? i don't want to play/practice all the time.. i like doing other stuff too (i want to practice enough on my current setup, i love my basses as much as anyone else regardless of their price and customization).. just saying that there are many types of bassists.. some give more importance to gear and some don't... gear is very important but practice and playing and big ears and an open mind are more important for me.. (i'd give gear 30% importance and playing 70% importance) plus there are so many bassists and all of them will have a different life/music philosophy... if all of us thought the same way life would be one big bore.. i'm not telling u change your outlook.. just sharing mine.. (PS: i don't need new/custom gear to make me practice new techniques or music theories or genres) eg. nathan east's excellent bass playing on the new daft punk album has really inspired me to play more strictly my opinion..

 

[Emanuel Apascaritei]

It´s like a trap, once you try a boutique bass you´re trapped. I´m trapped also

 

[Shardik]

It´s like a trap, once you try a boutique bass you´re trapped. I´m trapped also

I am not. I guess I am just a lousy player for not noticing the awesomeness when I pick up a $1000+ or even a $2000+ bass in a shop. Yep, they are usually a bit better (and definitely have more exclusive woods and parts), but sometimes also not better than my best bass, which is a ... wait for it ... Cort Artisan.

I guess I am happy being stuck in the value for money trap.

PS. It may also be the fact that all my basses use balanced tension string sets. Which kinda makes me question why a lot of boutique basses do not...

 

[BawanaRik]

The workmanship on the Alembic I sold was incredible. It was a work of art.

Wood were great too.

 

[Just Thumpin']

As a very seasoned business professional with experience in multiple other industries, I can tell you unequivocally that our production costs ARE incredible high. I can also say that they are in no way too high if we want to keep building at the level that we strive to. We are constantly trying to figure out how to be as efficient as possible without diminishing quality. Problem is that most of the "cost saving" ideas that we have come up with cannot make it into an instrument that we will let out the door because we can feel or hear the differences and they are (in our opinion) inferior to the way we normally do things.

But the bigger question is, why is this a bad thing? If our stated goal is to do things the very best that we are capable of, should high production costs really be viewed as a "problem?"

Kindest regards,

Jason

Maybe the production costs are too high, then?

 

[iwearpumas]

For the record, I've heard high quality basses and low quality basses with the same woods, and I immediately noticed the difference.

 

[Joe Louvar]

I've always had somewhat cheap basses. Different types of Fenders and Peaveys. I've played a stingray, but never any high dollar stuff.

I see basses go for upwards of $6k on this site. I can't imagine its a wood that isn't used by anyone else, and nowadays I'm going to guess that any electronics can be cloned close enough to sound similar. Finishes are pretty easy with veneers. So what drives up the cost?

I can imagine an argument might be that hand made will always be better quality, but that isn't always true. I'm just curious. Being a dad, I have this bad habit of putting my extra dough aside for the kid, so I can pretty confidently say I'll never get to play one.

I'm not trying to start any brand war, I'm sincerely wondering what I'm missing. What do they feel like? Play like? Sound like? How do you test drive one of these boutiques before you buy? I only see the usual stuff at our music stores. The closest I can get, I know a guy with a 6 string Warwick thumb. But even that is a little lower brow than some of the nice looking basses I've seen on here.

FWIW: Mainly 3 things - 1) Top quality craftsmanship, 2) materials/parts, and 3) popularly.

 

[Zootsuitbass]

There has to be the equivalent of this for master craftsman

 

[Baird6869]

Fodera keeps coming up because of people like you who think they know why they're so expensive, but really couldn't be farther from the truth. Jason was kind enough to break it down in a thread like this a while ago. Perhaps if you did a search (or someone was kind enough to link the post) you could educate yourself instead of posting baseless opinions.

+1.

Fodera is percieved as the super duper high end mega expensive bass brand for some reason on TB. I don't get that.

Price out a custom Alembic, Ritter, Alleva Coppolo, Carl Thompson and even Warwick with fancy woods... Same range. Call the Fender Custom Shop and have them price out a one of Custom. Better yet, go visit the Fodera shop and see how their basses are made. If that doesn't change your opinion about Foderas being worth the $$$, cool too.... but I bet it will.

All Foderas are not $10k+ (i would guess most are in the $5000-9000 range new) and lots of great players are gigging the hell out of American made Foderas that are relatively inexpensive compared to other boutique makers. $4750 for a new American Monarch Standard is reasonable in the boutique world. My Emperor 5er sells regularly used/mint on TB for $4700-4800. It is a killer bass. Yes, a new Fender American Standard is $1299 new. Not in the same league IMO and I say that as an owner of at least a half dozen Fender guitars. Fodera resale tends to be high as well, which is great if you ever have to sell one.

In any case, play what makes you happy and what you can comfortably afford.

 

[Chainsaw Willie]

cheating at what? Do you assume that a guy playing a bass with real mojo is good? Conversely, do you think a guy playing a new, shiny bass is bad? How about if they play a $20,000 Fodera (good) or a $200 SX (bad)?

Playing a relic'd bass is NOTHING like lying about a service record, it's not even near that level of "wrong" (I don't think playing a relic is wrong at all, of course) and frankly I think that your comment was asinine.

Wow, this bugs you a little too much.

 

[edpal]

There's craftsmanship & then there's charging for your name. Labor is still the correct word. Craftsmanship just means that it's artist labor that's used.

Yes, I charge for my name (not a luthier, watchsmith). Sometimes I won't sell item's I've restored as I know the buyer is just a reseller and "why should I let you enhance your reputation off MY work"? I did all the low level work, I paid for all the Internet advertising, I took it up the backside on the deals that went sour so I could build my reputation. I'm thinking this world would have a lot less crap if people had to put their name behind their work. [end of rant]/

Relic-ing is not cheating, it's an alternate paintjob. I thinking an actual relic instrument gets no automatic mojo point, since it's relic condition may just mean the previous owner(s) were clumsy slobs. Some people want pristine others want a worn look. I reliced my Carvin AC50 by intentional sanding through the finish to give a wear mark around half the volume and tone knob, a nice "arm-rub" and wacked it for several minutes with various metal objects. People have been doing faux antique finishes for ages. Glossy paint might be considered an imitation of the gloss of natural items.

I have nothing to add to the actual topic...it blew away in the posts.

 

[edpal]

As a very seasoned business professional with experience in multiple other industries, I can tell you unequivocally that our production costs ARE incredible high. I can also say that they are in no way too high if we want to keep building at the level that we strive to. We are constantly trying to figure out how to be as efficient as possible without diminishing quality. Problem is that most of the "cost saving" ideas that we have come up with cannot make it into an instrument that we will let out the door because we can feel or hear the differences and they are (in our opinion) inferior to the way we normally do things.

But the bigger question is, why is this a bad thing? If our stated goal is to do things the very best that we are capable of, should high production costs really be viewed as a "problem?"

Kindest regards,

Jason

In answer to your question Jason - no, I see no problem. Your customers are apparently willing and able to absorb the cost. Like I tell my customers when they ask why I won't reduce price, "because it is a want, not a need."

 

[Metalbasspro]

Demand!

If there's no demand, there are no high prices.

Not always true. I have heard about mail order companies that started out selling for less and sales were low. They raised prices and the orders went through the roof.

A guy I know was an up start Custom Guitar builder in 1997. He went full time around 2004 and in the beginning he sold some guitars and basses at around the the 1,500 price range. Business was slow and he later told me he raised the prices to be in line with other custom shops and almost over night he had so many orders he could not even get a day off.


Currently some of his guitars are selling on Ebay for the same prices they sold for new by their first owners.

 

[Shardik]

For the record, I've heard high quality basses and low quality basses with the same woods, and I immediately noticed the difference.

Of course. The low quality basses are low quality. Duh!
But the relationship between quality and price is not a linear one.

 

[Milk]

All my favorite bassists use(d) basses a common mortal can afford. Therefore, i see no reason to get an expensive bass. IF it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Although i might pay for a vintage, if i had the cash. That's it. But then it's a lot of times more about paying for rarity then quality.