What method for Weirdorje's Bernard Paganotti growl?

[Feral Feline]

I was told Bernard Paganotti is in his 70s or perhaps even 80s, so I might try to contact him directly. Meanwhile, thought I'd post the question here: how does he get his growling bass sound?



(Bass starts about 2 minutes into the song.)

I was also told he tunes his bass one full tone down, so the strings are loose and resonate quite differently from standard tuning.


First and foremost, I'm hoping to find out exactly what gear he used; but failing that, I appreciate all suggestions on copping his sound.

 

[Snaxster]

I was told Bernard Paganotti is in his 70s or perhaps even 80s, so I might try to contact him directly. Meanwhile, thought I'd post the question here: how does he get his growling bass sound?



(Bass starts about 2 minutes into the song.)

I was also told he tunes his bass one full tone down, so the strings are loose and resonate quite differently from standard tuning.


First and foremost, I'm hoping to find out exactly what gear he used; but failing that, I appreciate all suggestions on copping his sound.

You know, I started listening to this album when it was released in 1978, and I already was listening to Magma a few year prior. By chance I would start playing bass guitar in 1979. And I still have copies of all those albums. But I never thought to research the details of how Bernard Paganotti, and Jannick Top before him (then those two together briefly on "Üdü Ẁüdü") got their characteristic bass guitar sound.

Drop tuning, definitely. Then some sort of overdrive or light distortion. What was available to them circa 1974 to 1978? That will narrow down the possibilities. Natural tube amp drive, assisted or not, could be it. Cf. John Wetton's fuzz-assisted Hiwatt amps of those years.

As a sidebar: If you want to know where these Zeuhl bassists got the 'dramatic upward slides into wide vibrato' thing, just listen to Stanley Clarke on Return to Forever's 1973 album "Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy". They sure did.

 

[Sid the Kid]

Wow, really interesting music!

I can’t say I have any clue how to get that sound, it almost sounds like the growl of an analog octave breakup with fuzz.

Thank you very much for sharing, I’m going to go dig in to their catalog.

 

[American Zeuhl]

Pretty sure it’s a 5-string Jacobacci bass into an EMS Synthi Hi Fli. Bernard Paganotti had what may be the first-ever five string bass in France.

For a similar tone, try the EHX Bass Microsynth.

 

[Snaxster]

Pretty sure it’s a 5-string Jacobacci bass into an EMS Synthi Hi Fli. Bernard Paganotti had what may be the first-ever five string bass in France...

Hello. That is interesting. Do you have any citations to online sources that we can see?

Jacobacci, yes. But 5-string bass guitar with a low B string in 1978 is unlikely, I think; and before then highly unlikely. Thanks.

 

[sunbeast]

Hello. That is interesting. Do you have any citations to online sources that we can see?

Jacobacci, yes. But 5-string bass guitar with a low B string in 1978 is unlikely, I think; and before then highly unlikely. Thanks.

This thread is very intriguing to me! I got to see Magma in LA a few years back and it was quite a show, but obviously a different bassist and very different tones. Here's a vid from '79 and you can see his 5-string, based on the chord playing starting around 6:45 I can hear a clear sub-octave effect, and when he goes down the neck to play the chords it sounds like the upper string is tuned higher (so perhaps to C or D) as opposed to a low B string. Just watching videos of the Hi Fli it seems quite possible that it could have done these tones. I had never heard of it til now and now wish I had a couple thousand bucks to blow on a reissue!

 

[American Zeuhl]

Hello. That is interesting. Do you have any citations to online sources that we can see?

Jacobacci, yes. But 5-string bass guitar with a low B string in 1978 is unlikely, I think; and before then highly unlikely. Thanks.

From a Facebook thread in the Magma Zeuhl group. Directly from Klaus Blasquiz, who was in the band alongside Bernard Paganotti for years.

The video posted before me shows him playing his 5-string Jacobacci. Here’s a low-rez picture of him playing it in 1980.

 

[callofcthulhu]

This track shaging rips

 

[Snaxster]

This thread is very intriguing to me! I got to see Magma in LA a few years back and it was quite a show, but obviously a different bassist and very different tones. Here's a vid from '79 and you can see his 5-string, based on the chord playing starting around 6:45 I can hear a clear sub-octave effect, and when he goes down the neck to play the chords it sounds like the upper string is tuned higher (so perhaps to C or D) as opposed to a low B string. Just watching videos of the Hi Fli it seems quite possible that it could have done these tones. I had never heard of it til now and now wish I had a couple thousand bucks to blow on a reissue!

Thank you. It's great to see them doing it back then.

Yes, there is Paganotti playing a 5-string Jacobacci (which resembles Top's fret cello). But I heard him play no pitch below the standard bass guitar low E (ish). Maybe he was tuned down a half step or a step. My money is on his bass being tuned EADGC.

 

[Snaxster]

From a Facebook thread in the Magma Zeuhl group. Directly from Klaus Blasquiz, who was in the band alongside Bernard Paganotti for years.

The video posted before me shows him playing his 5-string Jacobacci. Here’s a low-rez picture of him playing it in 1980.

Thank you. First of all, I love that Klaus Blasquiz is posting in Zeuhl forums in the internet age.

But unless M. Blasquiz specifically said that Bernard Paganotti was playing a 5-string bass with a low B string as early as 1978, then I continue to believe that his bass, even if detuned, was strung EADGC.

 

[sunbeast]

Thank you. First of all, I love that Klaus Blasquiz is posting in Zeuhl forums in the internet age.

But unless M. Blasquiz specifically said that Bernard Paganotti was playing a 5-string bass with a low B string as early as 1978, then I continue to believe that his bass, even if detuned, was strung EADGC.

That’s what I was trying to show in the video (you can hear how high the top notes are in the chording when he drops down the neck in the part I pointed out). I don’t think it was ever claimed to be a bass with a low B (I don’t think that was a thing until the 80s?)

 

[American Zeuhl]

I'll ask around and figure out how it's tuned. Meanwhile, can anyone figure out how thick the gauges are in this picture of him?

I still think it's a low B for two reasons:

1. Jannick Top - his predecessor in Magma - tuned his bass in fifths an octave below a cello (C-G-D-A). Those low notes are a signature part of his tone and he used them all over the place. It would have made more sense to get an extra string to cover those parts.
2. Jimmy Johnson apparently developed the first 5-string bass with a low B string in 1976. I don't think it would have been super unusual for one of the top luthiers in France to build a similar design two years later.

 

[Les Fret]

Great topic. I am a big Magma fan and I love all their stuff from 1972-1977. The later 21th century Magma is a great live band too but I don’t like their later studio albums that much. It became too bombastic and reviving of the old sound and themes. Still performed really good but nothing new under the sun.

Have listened a lot again to them the last few weeks. Paganotti’s distorted bass solo on the live MDK versions is great. Love his playing. I don’t care too much for all the Magma side projects and band. They never matched the level of the 70’s Magma at their peak and most try to sound too much like Magma.

Did you know he has written a bass method book in those day? Does anyone know if it’s available? Would like to have a look.

 

[Aldebaran]

I continue to believe that his bass, even if detuned, was strung EADGC.

And you continue to be wrong. To hear the low "B", listen to "Lihns" on Magma Live.

 

[Snaxster]

And you continue to be wrong. To hear the low "B", listen to "Lihns" on Magma Live.

I'm very proud of you.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm very proud of you.

Aw, shucks!

That said, I do believe that you are right and I am mistaken (here and in another thread) re. the 5-stringed Jacobacci at that time. I just searched the Jacobacci site, and the 5-strings do not appear to have been manufactured until later, as you indicated. But there is no question that Paganotti tuned down.

 

[Les Fret]

Aw, shucks!

That said, I do believe that you are right and I am mistaken (here and in another thread) .

Yes in that video above he has tuned EADGC I think. Might be that de tuned down his E string for some songs.