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What should I do about this band / drummer?
- Thread starter CaptainGreen
- Start date
With the drummer you described, don't worry about gigging out much, if people can't dance to the music, you won't be hired back. Rule #1 for drummers, keep a steady beat. The steady beat is more important than fills. Sound like you need a drummer not a amateur for that band.
I've been in a similar situation as you. Last band I was in, the drummer was technically very good but he had absolutely no groove AND no sense of dynamics. He also bashed the hell out of his set! Songs were always rushed. No time fluctuation, but it was not that much fun playing in that band.
I appreciate your situation but I honestly don't think the drummer is going to correct this problem. The number one importance for a drummer is timing/groove. If he doesn't have that, I think your ship has sunk, unfortunately.
I don't think this advice is particularly great advice. Unless you're a really good singer who knows how to sing a harmony on pitch, this is just going take your attention off your playing, when it sounds like you're still very much in the learning phases with that.
There are far too many people out there with microphones in front of them who just shouldn't have them. It's your call as to whether this is a skill you should pursue; it will make you a more desirable asset IF you can do it well, but about 10% of the people I hear doing backups on stage do it well. More often than not is is a detriment rather than an asset to a band's sound. And more often than not your local sound engineers will pull you mostly out of the mix anyway unless you're in that 10%.
Can you hear and sing a third? A fifth? Can you reliably add a missing part to a song you're hearing on the radio to create a three-part harmony? Can you do that same part every time you hear that song? If you can't, you're going to have a lot of ear training to do in order to really become a valuable asset with that skill.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just think that casually tossing off "learn backups" is poor advice that undervalues the skills and work required, when singing well is not actually an easy thing to do and most people who would like to do it or say they do it can't do it.
I have worked with many, many wannabe harmonists who can't hear their parts well at all. It wastes everybody's time and pulls down the ability to polish the final product.
If you're a good singer or you have a great ear for intonation and harmony, please disregard everything I just wrote.
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ok, sorry, I read the OP, but, then after a full day of stuff, read the post above, about the audition, as if it was the only meeting...
When you guys get together, after a song, that issues stick out, stop & say, "let's work on this tune - I feel that we are not very tight" & then see if you can get anywhere. If he does a fill that comes back on the wrong beat, stop & ask what he's playing there & see how to rectify it.
You'll soon learn if you guys can get it together, by breaking down a single track. I mean, don't move on, until you get it. If it takes all practice, so be it. If you get somewhere, then work on the next troublesome song. If you can hammer them out, then it will be time well spent. If not, you'll probably need to start talking about exiting, but, at least you gave it a try & hopefully you can do it diplomatically enough, that you'll still be friends.
From what you described, this drummer is going to suck the joy out of playing for you. Unless he is actively taking lessons and working on technique, he’s not going to get better any time soon.
I have always been up front with other musicians I am working with. I can’t make it as a professional if I am allowing the people I work with to not meet the standards required to put on a good show, record a good session, write a great song.
You have your own goals as a musician. Maybe it’s to do cover gigs, maybe it’s to write and record originals, tour the world, whatever. If you don’t work with people who are putting in the same effort and focused on the same goals, you will continue to spin your wheels.
For many years I tried to connect with people who I felt I could learn and improve my craft from. I still do, and the result has been my growth as a musician. I enjoy working with musicians who are always trying to improve themselves, it inspires me in so many ways.
If you find yourself struggling to attain your goals you may need to identify what is holding you back, and sometimes that is the people you have aligned yourself with.
So be up front with yourself and this band, and tell them that you are concerned about the drumming. Whether or not you decide to stay or go, nothing will change if you don’t put your foot down and stand up for what you need to attain your goals.
You have your own goals as a musician. Maybe it’s to do cover gigs, maybe it’s to write and record originals, tour the world, whatever. If you don’t work with people who are putting in the same effort and focused on the same goals, you will continue to spin your wheels.
For many years I tried to connect with people who I felt I could learn and improve my craft from. I still do, and the result has been my growth as a musician. I enjoy working with musicians who are always trying to improve themselves, it inspires me in so many ways.
If you find yourself struggling to attain your goals you may need to identify what is holding you back, and sometimes that is the people you have aligned yourself with.
So be up front with yourself and this band, and tell them that you are concerned about the drumming. Whether or not you decide to stay or go, nothing will change if you don’t put your foot down and stand up for what you need to attain your goals.
As a bass player, who also sings, I can't deal with a drummer that's not totally solid. I'm already splitting my head into two often completely separate directions, so a great drummer is key for me. give it a little while, record rehearsals and see what happens, but be prepared to move on, or have him move on. assuming that there are other better local drummers available!
Please note I didn't read all of the responses.
Perhaps at a higher level, you have the responsibility to develop this drummer. Fresh meat that you may be able help.
Perhaps at a higher level, you have the responsibility to develop this drummer. Fresh meat that you may be able help.
So if you’re looking to play gigs and have fun, it isn’t going to work out in the near term with this drummer. You won’t get repeat gigs with the drummer playing like this and what gigs you get won’t be fun.
The long term is a big maybe, entirely dependent on whether the drummer gets better. At this stage in my life I would either have the uncomfortable conversation with the band about the drummer and/or just move on, in that order.
The long term is a big maybe, entirely dependent on whether the drummer gets better. At this stage in my life I would either have the uncomfortable conversation with the band about the drummer and/or just move on, in that order.
- Dec 21, 2007
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A bands as good as it's drummer!
If your recce of the situation is what it is...bail, now!
Only got halfway through OP and thats a red flag.
Tell the drummer he needs to go away and work on his craft but this project is not for him.
If that isn't possible, then leave over it. imo.
In a recent band, I knew it wasnt working at first get together...not because of playing, but chemistry and age difference.
Had a few fun gigs but those issues remain so they need to find someone else. How long do you give to fix something?
Tell the drummer he needs to go away and work on his craft but this project is not for him.
If that isn't possible, then leave over it. imo.
In a recent band, I knew it wasnt working at first get together...not because of playing, but chemistry and age difference.
Had a few fun gigs but those issues remain so they need to find someone else. How long do you give to fix something?
I think the suggestions to work 1-1 with the drummer and record yourselves are solid. If he's new and at least has an open mind that is good. Just be clear with him that you want the two of you to really lock in and be the best you can, since the rhythm section is so fundamental and important.
As far as people telling you to "find a new drummer", I haven't read every reply, but from your original post it seems you're the "outsider" in the group if they are all friends or previous acquaintances. Plus, the drummer is paying for the practice space, which is huge. I don't know your location or how many like-minded musicians are in your area, but if you get along with the band and have some similar goals of gigging, you may have a good thing going. Approaching the others about replacing the drummer may backfire, and they could begin searching for another bassist.
As far as people telling you to "find a new drummer", I haven't read every reply, but from your original post it seems you're the "outsider" in the group if they are all friends or previous acquaintances. Plus, the drummer is paying for the practice space, which is huge. I don't know your location or how many like-minded musicians are in your area, but if you get along with the band and have some similar goals of gigging, you may have a good thing going. Approaching the others about replacing the drummer may backfire, and they could begin searching for another bassist.
Haven't read the thread, but my 2 cents:
This is tough and you need to be honest with yourself regarding if you can manage to hang with inconsistent drumming or not. If he's a s green as you say, he's probably not going to improve dramatically in any short term reality - if at all. If you see this being a big problem for you, it's better to cut your losses now. I personally hate fighting time with the drummer - it takes away al ability to groove if I can't relax and lean into a steady beat.
That said, given that you are relatively new to the scene yourself, you may want to try to work with him as you yourself grow. As painful as it is, it'll be good for you to get some "band" time under your belt. I was very fortunate to have worked with some very good and helpful drummers who mentored me into being a bassist that drummers love to work with. Maybe you can do that for him? This will require a lot of patience.
Given what you said, I'd probably be inclined to have a private chat with the guitar player, maybe see if he feels the same way and if he thinks there is any chance he's replaceable. Proceed with your decision form there.
This is tough and you need to be honest with yourself regarding if you can manage to hang with inconsistent drumming or not. If he's a s green as you say, he's probably not going to improve dramatically in any short term reality - if at all. If you see this being a big problem for you, it's better to cut your losses now. I personally hate fighting time with the drummer - it takes away al ability to groove if I can't relax and lean into a steady beat.
That said, given that you are relatively new to the scene yourself, you may want to try to work with him as you yourself grow. As painful as it is, it'll be good for you to get some "band" time under your belt. I was very fortunate to have worked with some very good and helpful drummers who mentored me into being a bassist that drummers love to work with. Maybe you can do that for him? This will require a lot of patience.
Given what you said, I'd probably be inclined to have a private chat with the guitar player, maybe see if he feels the same way and if he thinks there is any chance he's replaceable. Proceed with your decision form there.
having read the posts from my previous one to here but not all the early ones, I would say this.
point 1: you have never been in a giggging band, and are very anxious to do so. I have never played gigs as a bassist, but i did for years as a drummer. And yes it as sweet as you imagine it to be, even if only at a small venue level.
point 2: Everyone pays dues to get there, even the super talented. most of the advice here is from guys who have been playing so long that they don't remember the struggle before they found or grew the band to gig with.
point 3: every band that is on its way to success but not yet there has some members who are more advanced, and some who are less so.
point 4: those who are less talented, but still capable of making it will advance better in an environment with mentors. I know for certain that i was the weakest player in the first band i played actual gigs with. at least for the first year or so. They tolerated me, and probably lost some gigs because of me. but they decided I was worth helping.
Then things suddenly fell into place and click got better. for me it was partly because i played in school bands, including marching band. I always played with a marching grip on my sticks (left hand with an underhand grip) and just couldn't make some of the transitions smoothly, especially when using a combination of open and closed rudiments (with a stroke for every contact vs using the bounce to close the rolls,etc) Once i abandoned the marching grip for a matched grip style of playing, (which was very hard to do, because it felt wrong) it took a matter of weeks to advance years worth of development. The reason is i already had the skills and knew what i wanted to do but my mechanics got in the way.
Now you have to decide. If nobody ever helped you past a time when you just weren't smooth where would you be. It is easy to say move on without the drummer! and if you were a player who had played in a gigging band for years you would be totally justified. And yes i fully understand the interaction between drummer and bassist. I play both instruments.
solution 1: If the drummer is capable of making it (with some help) i would say that you would be less of the kind of musician i would want to play with if you just gave him up. So chalk it up as extended learning time and work it out with him.
solution2: If he just doesn't have what it takes, then and only then would i say that you as a player with no gigging experience yourself, are justified in leveling an ultimatum. The trick is knowing what is the real situation. You never know, it could be as simple as a change in grip.
point 1: you have never been in a giggging band, and are very anxious to do so. I have never played gigs as a bassist, but i did for years as a drummer. And yes it as sweet as you imagine it to be, even if only at a small venue level.
point 2: Everyone pays dues to get there, even the super talented. most of the advice here is from guys who have been playing so long that they don't remember the struggle before they found or grew the band to gig with.
point 3: every band that is on its way to success but not yet there has some members who are more advanced, and some who are less so.
point 4: those who are less talented, but still capable of making it will advance better in an environment with mentors. I know for certain that i was the weakest player in the first band i played actual gigs with. at least for the first year or so. They tolerated me, and probably lost some gigs because of me. but they decided I was worth helping.
Then things suddenly fell into place and click got better. for me it was partly because i played in school bands, including marching band. I always played with a marching grip on my sticks (left hand with an underhand grip) and just couldn't make some of the transitions smoothly, especially when using a combination of open and closed rudiments (with a stroke for every contact vs using the bounce to close the rolls,etc) Once i abandoned the marching grip for a matched grip style of playing, (which was very hard to do, because it felt wrong) it took a matter of weeks to advance years worth of development. The reason is i already had the skills and knew what i wanted to do but my mechanics got in the way.
Now you have to decide. If nobody ever helped you past a time when you just weren't smooth where would you be. It is easy to say move on without the drummer! and if you were a player who had played in a gigging band for years you would be totally justified. And yes i fully understand the interaction between drummer and bassist. I play both instruments.
solution 1: If the drummer is capable of making it (with some help) i would say that you would be less of the kind of musician i would want to play with if you just gave him up. So chalk it up as extended learning time and work it out with him.
solution2: If he just doesn't have what it takes, then and only then would i say that you as a player with no gigging experience yourself, are justified in leveling an ultimatum. The trick is knowing what is the real situation. You never know, it could be as simple as a change in grip.
