What should I practice when I practice?!

[Exemonium]

Hi everyone, I'm at a loss...

I have no clue what I should be doing. I would love a practice routine that I can work on, but I don't have a clue what to do to actually practice scales, modes, solos, technique. So, I just end up learning new songs, trying to hear the parts, trying to see how much I can replicate a phrase after figuring out the key, by just hearing then playing... not just noodling to figure it out. I have limited access to music resources but I try to sightread as well. I'm stuck at where to go from there...

The largest problem is I just simply cannot afford an instructor. And sadly, when I did have one for a semester in school, I improved greatly. But since then I'm lost on what to do. I want to become a very proficient bassist. I enjoy all styles, and try to play some songs from each. I've never had the goal to be the best funk bassist, or slap, or metal, or reggae, or r&b....I want to be good at each. I don't expect I'd be able to be GREAT at each, maybe that's just me being realistic. I want to make music for a living, not just part of my living.

To this day I'm worst at slap, and still don't know what steps to take to improve that.

I'd also love to learn to do some of the sweet sweet jazzy solos I hear all these people doing. I love them.

I understand theory, I just can't put it into practical use on the fly on the more difficult things like jazz. Also...modes, when do I use them? How do I practice them? Jazz theory still eludes me...

I'm all about logging the time in practice for everything I need. I just need to know what to practice for scales, for soloing, technique, slapping, theory, transposition, ear training, etc I try to apply the ideas of what I've learned every time I do something. I really do want to be a great bass player, I'm just stuck.

Maybe some ideas on what people learn in MIT courses, or Berkley Courses...maybe that kind of stuff would help. Man...what a dream that would be to get to learn there.

I dunno, it's just so frustrating! I want to learn, I want to study, I want to practice, I want to improve...I just don't know where to go or what do to. GAH! If I wasn't poor I'd hire a different instructor for each thing! I'd take lessons/classes daily!

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out.

 

[Staccato]

Develop a warm-up technique that works for you...

Choose a different scale, or mode each day and practice the notes at different tempos. Doing this with a metronome is helpful in the long run. After you're bored with some of that-move on to arpeggios. If you haven't learned the notes on the neck, there's plenty of online resources that illustrate various methods for learning them.

Don't get stuck in warm-up, or theory mode, practice songs at your level, and songs that have some challenge above your level.

If you need more structure for discipline, print out some of this, and set goals for each day that are attainable, and note your progress.

 

[Exemonium]

That's the thing, I get all that. I'm already a working bassist, I just want to take it to the next level and work towards being a full time working musician. Mostly, I get handed music and I have to play what's on the paper. Which is fine, but it also makes me a zombie. I can see the basic structure and sometimes for fun I'll analyze a piece and see if I can figure out the chords and such(which in musical theatre is an entire beast of it's own!)

I guess, I don't know the practical use for modes. Even my last instructor used to say he things in different "keys" throughout a jazz song. That threw me off completely, to this day I'm not 100% sure what he meant by that. But when I walk bass, I don't think of a key, I just use the arpeggios for the chord, or I'll see Dm7 and I switch to think the Dm scale. I have no clue if that's right or wrong, but my walking bass isn't anywhere near as dynamic as I've heard. Then once I start throwing in flavor notes, I throw myself off. so walking bass is something I try to improvise everyday. Maybe I should break it down and analyze it? Or will that take me out of trying to be able to just "go"?

 

[MalcolmAmos]

That's the thing, I get all that. I'm already a working bassist, I just want to take it to the next level and work towards being a full time working musician. Mostly, I get handed music and I have to play what's on the paper. Which is fine, but it also makes me a zombie. I can see the basic structure and sometimes for fun I'll analyze a piece and see if I can figure out the chords and such(which in musical theatre is an entire beast of it's own!)

OK IMO -- If you can read music and are a working bassist now - you are further down the road than I am. Taking that into consideration -- I would think a warm up of scales and chords around the circle for 30 minutes would be a good idea. To the zombie thing if the director wants the music played as written that's what he is paying you to do.

I guess, I don't know the practical use for modes. Even my last instructor used to say he things in different "keys" throughout a jazz song. That threw me off completely, to this day I'm not 100% sure what he meant by that.

Join the club. Modes are perhaps the most misunderstood part of music. I take for granted you know modes, and are just questioning how to use them. I think the short answer here is modes are used for the mood they produce. If you want an attractive minor jazz mood Dorian is your mode. But, you need the correct chords under Dorian to achieve that mood. If you want a major Latin mood Mixolydian is your mode. And here if the chords are all dominant sevens and you play Mix over them you probably will not get that Latin mood. All dominant seven chords are a blues thing, the modal mood will not develop. So, IMO you pick a mode and the chords that gives the mood you are looking for. But, to use a mode you need for the rest of the band playing chords that will let the modal mood develop - or you are just blowing in the wind all those good modal notes. How to use modes? Good question.

But when I walk bass, I don't think of a key, I just use the arpeggios for the chord, or I'll see Dm7 and I switch to think the Dm scale. I have no clue if that's right or wrong, but my walking bass isn't anywhere near as dynamic as I've heard. Then once I start throwing in flavor notes, I throw myself off so walking bass is something I try to improvise everyday. Maybe I should break it down and analyze it? Or will that take me out of trying to be able to just "go"?

I think most of the improvisation that is done in public has been practiced a lot of times in the shed. Improvisation is letting the melody dictate what you use to improvise that melody.
OK let your arpeggios/chords dictate what you use to improvise, i.e. you gotta have a structure in there somewhere or it'll just be noise. Of course that is IMO. All that let go and jamm can happen when we have put a lot of stuff into muscle memory to pull from.

 

[Exemonium]

Wow, that was a great wealth of info, thanks!!!

As far as me working, it really was a who I knew, right place right time thing. I'm a musical actor and they did a show where the band was on stage and sang backup...boom, foot in the pit door. That's oddly enough how I discovered the bass hehe. Which I'm extremely thankful for, I truly truly love it.

I think doing covers and playing what's written is the easy part. I mean, I don't have to think or create. THAT'S where I'm lost. It's tough for me to create music. I feel so stale and basic when I have to write. And I think its because I haven't had to think. Granted I have to be able to jump around and adjust on the fly in live theatre...but again, what to do is written out for me. I want to be able to efficiently create.

Same thing with my cover band, I'm pretty much "told" what to play. There have been many covers I've heard where I think "wow, I would have never thought to do it like that". I could be impressed by the most basic things for all I know.

So I guess you've helped me narrow more what I need to focus on. Instead of being the factory worker that just separates the paints and puts them where they go, I want to use the paints to create something new, exciting, and of my own.

I truly don't mean this to offend anyone, but even 5th graders read music. They see a G, they play a G. That's how it was for me. I didn't know why I was playing certain notes or rhythms as a kid, I just did what the paper told me to. It's nearly the same now. But now I can analyze why. Granted, It was a lot easier to learn to read as a kid, it'd be more difficult to learn once you can already play, just can't read the music. So I understand the frustrations people have.

I'm always impressed by horn players that can solo so well in jazz, they truly get it. Most guitarist, bassists, even pianists use visualizations to see the key, scale, mode. The horn players just know what notes to go for, to me that's so awesome.

 

[Gaius46]

If I may humbly disagree I think it misses the mark to say you just play what's written on the page like a robot. Pablo Casals or Segovia didn't just read what's on the page. They interpreted it and made it thiers. Jamerson very often embellished the lines the composers gave him to play. There is a lot of room for individual expression when playing what's written. Granted it may be lost on the people in the audience but it won't be lost on you.

Personally I think the emphasis on scales is somewhat misplaced. I find arpeggios much more relevant - at least to my playing. I practice scales and modes and know which ones go with which chords but I find knowing how to play the Cm7 arpeggio, for example, in it's various inversions and in a number of positions on the neck, to be much more useful.

You might want to start by getting something like the real book and playing arpeggios over the changes of any randomly selected song in there. Maybe start straight quarters and just playing the notes in sequence to get them under your fingers. Then vary the note sequences - start on the 3rd or 5th instead of the root, change the rhythm - use 8ths, combine quarters and 8ths, change locations on the neck, find inventive ways to connect the chords etc etc, the possibilities are limitless. That kind of practice does wonders for your ability to come up with basslines and keeps things much more fun and interesting as opposed to just grinding through scales.

 

[Exemonium]

Well, I do have the real book so that's good. I've been trying to go through random songs like that. I've not used inversions and such though. That's something right there that I can work on! Also, it's still odd for me to not hear the root on the downbeat when I play. But when I listen to others do it, they know how to swing it around so it sounds perfectly normal. That's another thing I'm excited to be able to do.

As for playing what's on the page, for the most part I really have to stay with what's written since it's for musical theatre and they have a whole show that lines up. But yea, I know what you mean, there have been some less professional shows I've played for where I embellished on the lines a bit, and you're right hahahaha I thought I was pretty cool for doing some of the things I did, but it probably fell on deaf ears.

 

[RDUB]

+1 Gaius, some very good advice here. I do a lot of theatre work, with written scores, and it's amazing how much extra punch can be given to a piece by a rhythm section that can groove and add those passing notes. I often play notes in different octaves for different effect. Even mixing up note lengths can be a real rhythm driver.

I've found that knowing your arpeggio's is a huge start to producing good walking bass lines. For most students, the modes and chord scales come a little bit later. The Real Book suggestion above is a great idea to work on these.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was to listen to music, and play whatever part sounded neat to me. Vocal line, trumpet, synth, even a cool drum fill - try to play it on your bass and make it sound good. This really opens up a world of different ideas.

 

[Toastfuzz]

I am nowhere near professional enough to give you any direct advice, but from reading your post, I think some general advice to define what your goals are may help. You say you want to be proficient in all styles... I'm sure you're aware that you may stretch yourself too thin, or go too much too fast and burn yourself out... I'd come up with some achievable goals with short timelines, so you can monitor your improvements through milestones and the like. For instance, if you want to focus on slap for a month, find a song you really like with a tricky slapline that you can't play at all right now, and focus on building your slap technique so by your goal date you can play it.

In my practice my problem was focusing on too much too soon. I joined a band and focused on just the skills I needed/wanted for that project, and the focus helped immensely. Multitasking is rarely the most efficient path.

 

[Toastfuzz]

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was to listen to music, and play whatever part sounded neat to me. Vocal line, trumpet, synth, even a cool drum fill - try to play it on your bass and make it sound good. This really opens up a world of different ideas.

I've heard this advice as well, and saw it on a Jaco instructional Youtube vid once... he'd figure out how to play all the other instrument parts of a song, so he better understood the song as a whole, and it made writing a bassline to that song more fluid and practical, without over simplifying or over embellishing.

 

[Sabin]

Start identifying intervals NOW. Whatever you are playing, songs, scales, arpeggios, chords, always ask yourself what intervals you are playing. What scale degrees are you playing off of? What are the intervals in that bar relative to the key? How about the root of the particular chord? Don't just look at the intervals going up, but back down also. If you are playing a minor 3rd and go to a major 6th, then it is a minor 6th back down, etc. Open up your scales across the whole neck in every key. Don't stay boxed into patterns. Think about the intervals of the chords you are playing over. Are they just triads? To they contain extensions like 7ths or 9ths?

 

[lfmn16]

I've heard this advice as well, and saw it on a Jaco instructional Youtube vid once... he'd figure out how to play all the other instrument parts of a song, so he better understood the song as a whole, and it made writing a bassline to that song more fluid and practical, without over simplifying or over embellishing.

If you want to play jazz melodies, you may want to try working through the Charlie Parker songbook where the melodies for a bunch of his songs are written out. I've started it, but haven't really made the time to get good at it.

Also, I would suggest that you consider setting some specific measurable goals for your practice time. It makes it a lot easier to see progress and stay motivated.

 

[skwee]

I would like to second the idea that you are not allowed to be a zombie when you are playing a written part. You are required to interpret, even if you have a sea of thumpy quarter notes to play. Concentrate on phrasing well, and help to build the song's sections, whether they be quiet or loud, dynamically guiding the sound, etc). Above all, a paying gig is always better than a cubical in my book, so enjoy yourself. You mentioned above about wanting to do this full time. Well, it's tough to do. I benefitted in my younger years from realizing that day jobs and temping were not "fall back on", but "fall between". Even with a regular church job, there was no way without an agent to fill my calendar entirely with operas or oratorios. Also, there was the problem of "when would I learn the next show anyway??".

Having multiple and diverse income streams is very important, and yes, of course you want to do it full time with nothing else, but don't be too hard on yourself if it takes a long time or never happens completely. good luck!

 

[251]

This may give you some ideas about Slap;
Fun Slap Exercise - TalkBass Forums
The key is, they are your hands & you need to puzzle out how to make the sound you hear in your head. FWIW, I do this by making a lot of mistakes & learning from analyzing what is missing. That is easy to say ... YRMV.

This long, long discussion is still alive & well. You're in luck, bassnat just quoted Ed Fuqua's original post, saving you some searching;
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f73/really-learning-tune-304843/#post12434394

If this appeals to you;
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f163/good-daily-routine-693539/
Read the rest of Lynn Seaton's Forum;
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/search.php?searchid=11535702

Being self taught is more difficult, because you are inventing it. That sometimes means you will find things others don't or can't do. This is not a bad thing if you like the music coming from your hands.

I assume you play BG & have not yet begun to read the Double Bass Forums (sic). Open up. Upright players have studied with teachers, are teachers & offer a lot of music knowledge & insight on TalkBass.

Good Luck.

 

[Exemonium]

Thanks everyone. Of course I don't mean I want to learn all styles NOW, that's a long term goal for me. And mainly it's because I do enjoy playing for musicals a great deal. Throughout the years and musicals I could be playing many different styles. Heck , even thoughout the duration of one show I could be playing several styles! One of my pet peeves is listening to a classical guitarist playing "rock" when he doesn't get the feel. SO I understand what you all say about interpreting the music. I guess I just was thinking of that as a given.

As far as performing, I love playing I really really love it. Making music with others...there's something so magical about that. But I'm also an actor,singer,voice over artist. So, I do have a few things I can go between. I've never wanted to be famous doing what I love, just make enough to pay the bills and not starve. I just need to keep challenging myself to improve, so I can continually move up

Start identifying intervals NOW. Whatever you are playing, songs, scales, arpeggios, chords, always ask yourself what intervals you are playing. What scale degrees are you playing off of? What are the intervals in that bar relative to the key? How about the root of the particular chord? Don't just look at the intervals going up, but back down also. If you are playing a minor 3rd and go to a major 6th, then it is a minor 6th back down, etc. Open up your scales across the whole neck in every key. Don't stay boxed into patterns. Think about the intervals of the chords you are playing over. Are they just triads? To they contain extensions like 7ths or 9ths?

The interval thing, can you explain that more? How would I go about practicing something like that? I already think in terms of numbers...maybe too much in fact. I think "oh, here's the flat 5 if my root is here" I don't think I'm sticking to any one thing though. As the chords move along I think of them as the chords, but when I'm playing within each chord I'm thinking scale degrees of THAT chord. I may be making things harder on myself...I don't know. That's the perils of only being able to afford 1 semester of lessons ever. I may be teaching myself incorrectly and I don't want that.

 

[Exemonium]

I assume you play BG & have not yet begun to read the Double Bass Forums (sic). Open up. Upright players have studied with teachers, are teachers & offer a lot of music knowledge & insight on TalkBass.

Good Luck.

Y'know, I very much want to play double bass. I just can't afford one. But I never thought of looking over in that area for learning info. Thank you! And thanks for the links, I look forward to reading them

 

[Fattony]

Check out Online Bass Lessons at StudyBass.com . It has been in a great tool for my bass studying.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

You should have a warm up routine you use all the time.
After that you should learn and practice new ideas.
Once you have learned something move on.
If you keep going over ideas or studies you know under the idea you are practicing or reinforcing them, then you are not really learning anything or advancing your playing, all you are doing is going over what you already know. That will lead you to boredom and into a rut, because you will feel dis-satisfied with what you play.

So regardless of what music you like and listen to or what genre you play in just make sure you keep it fresh and introduce new ideas to learn. It is the introduction of ideas that make you struggle and have to work to master and understand them that will lead you to learning them.....and lead you to move on to more of the same. So keep it fresh and avoid going back on yourself.

 

[mikreno]

man I've been trying to articulate your feelings to anyone who would listen. no concrete answers...i feel exactly the same way. ill stay tuned into this thread and thanks!

 

[Exemonium]

Thanks so much! I'll update when I can too