What to play over a bossa-nova / latin type beat?

[moley]

The clave (pronounced clah-vay) is an important rhythm in latin music. It's a 2 bar rhythmic pattern in 4/4: first bar: Dotted quarter note, dotted quarter note, quarter note; second bar: quarter rest, quarter note, quarter note, quarter rest.

That's a 3-2 clave - because the first bar contains 3 notes, and the second contains 2. There is also the 2-3 clave, which is the same - but with the bars swapped round.

 

[parrott]

Thank you very much Moley!

That's a rhythm that's being used a lot by both the drummer and the percussionist.

Now I know about it, and that it's supposed (sp?) to be there.... that's so simple but so brilliant!

 

[Andrew Jones]

Allright Im feeling a little like trying again (play nice)

The Clave that you descrbed is what is known a the son clave(by the way clave is also the name of the percusion toys that make this rythm ussually 2 sticks)

Then theres the Rumba clave with is the same but the tthree side hit on the and of four instead of four .

then theres the brazilion clave where the 2 side is 2 and the and of three

The latter 2 are not reversed just the Son

AJ

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by parrott

I have got hold of a few Getz, Jobim and Gilberto tracks - they have helped immensly.

That's probably your best answer/idea - just listen to these and forget about the theory!!

 

[slam]

IMO the clave is the most important rhythm in Latin music. All the other beats relate to the clave. It is la call and response pattern built into the musical structure. As Andrew Jones said, there are several different clave beats and all of them can be played 3-2 or 2-3.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by moley
Bruce (forgive my ignorance), but what is the difference between Samba and Bossa?

Is Bossa a slower, more midtempo thing - e.g. Girl From Ip? Whereas Samba is a more up-tempo, dancey style?

Not a great example - but Jamiroquai's Stillness In Time, I've always considered that this has kind of a samba-ish feel? (I'm not really an expert on Latin music, so I thought I'd pick an example that I know we both know - although obviously it's not a Latin tune).

In the band I used to play with, we did a Jobim tune called "No More Blues", as what I'd call a Samba (maybe that's the wrong term - I'm not sure) - but then it went into a typical Salsa section in the middle. Very up-tempo, piano montuno, 2 chords (Dm7 G7, pretty typical) - brass etc.

Well these things have been around a long time now and musicians know about all these styles and mix them up - especially in Jazz.

If you ask what is Samba, Bossa Nova and Salsa, though, there is a distinct answer - just because you might play a 3/4 waltz section in a tune that started out as Blues - doesn't mean that these two dictinct styles no longer exist or that you can't define them.

The reason I labour the difference is that the bass lines are very different and we are on a bass site - so I have heard Jazz pianists playing cuban montunos in songs that started out as Sambas or Bossas.

Of course - there's nothing to stop you playing a Cuban Tumbao bass line in a Bossa Nova song, but I think you should then realise that you are changing it and creating a fusion of Cuban and Brazilian styles.

So - in a Tumbao you avoid the one and tie across the bar. Now this can have a devasting effect on the rest of the band if they don't know what you're doing - even experienced Jazz pros.

So - ther is a local pro Jazz DB player who I know well, who writes original compositions for his own quintet, which usually has a pianist. Now he played a gig that I attended where he had three horn playes and no chordal instrument and he wanted to play his own pieces - one of which was based on the typical Salsa or Afro Cuban Tumbao.

But - no piano - so he launched into the tune just him and the drums, starting with a vamp - but the horn players - all experienced Jazz pros - heard the 4 as the one and started the tune on 4 rather than 1 - and played the whole tune like that!! They were a beat out, all the time!

 

[moley]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
So - in a Tumbao you avoid the one and tie across the bar. Now this can have a devasting effect on the rest of the band if they don't know what you're doing - even experienced Jazz pros.

Yes, I think our arrangement of the Jobim tune used a Tumbao bass line - the notes mostly anticipated the beat by an 8th, IIRC, and he wasn't playing on the 1.

As the pianist, at times, it got me sorta confused.

 

[Blackbird]

Originally posted by junglebike
I thought bossa was originally from Portugal, and Samba from Brazil.

But I'm pretty clueless...

Yes, you are.

Bossa Nova and Samba are Brazilian.

Portugual created the Fado.

While you can try to adapt the clave to bossa nova, but it might not work because Bossa was derived from samba.