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Double Bass What to use with Pub 280

#41
T-Bal said:
So I would imagine you're not going to get any better than gut strings and a mic. If you're looking at stoopid volumes, you're talking about a different style of music anyway. In that case, another approach is in order.
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I think the key thing is that it's hard to find a single setup that works for every single situation. Almost every day I will play my bass with the Compas 180s and I'll be really liking it and thinking "I could probably live with this sound". However then I play my bass with the gut and I realise just how much better it is or rather how much more I like it. At least for playing straightahead jazz anyway.

There are a lot of factors when it comes to being heard in the mix, including the fact that a lot of people just playing too loud. The natural instinct one you can't hear something in the mix is to turn that instrument up when in fact what should really happen is that everyone else should turn down. Otherwise everyone is constantly turning up and it just gets louder and louder. However it's hard to get some people to understand these things...

Most of the time I don't have a problem cutting through the mix, especially since I've been using the Pub. The difference on the low end to the AI cabinet is huge.
 
#42
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Mine is installed Threads Down. Which brings me to another question (sorry for the thread detour): How big of a deal is it to reverse the installation on one of these suckers? I don't know if the "blind" (smooth) end of the adjuster is the same, greater, or lesser diameter than the threaded side. Either way, how big of a deal is it to switch directions? I'm hoping to find out soon because I'm going to Cincy to see Nnick Lloyd about another matter on Thursday, but he's on a timetable, and if it would be too time-consuming it would have to wait for another time. If, on the other hand, it can be done relatively quickly...
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I'm sure that if anyone can reverse the installation for you, Nnick can do it. Personally, my choice would be to simply fit a new bridge rather than trying to get everything aligned properly with a refit. Time wise, I think I can fit a new bridge with adjusters faster than I could refit the existing one.
 
#43
Bob Branstetter said:
I'm sure that if anyone can reverse the installation for you, Nnick can do it. Personally, my choice would be to simply fit a new bridge rather than trying to get everything aligned properly with a refit. Time wise, I think I can fit a new bridge with adjusters faster than I could refit the existing one.
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Cool, thanks for the reply. I'll ask Nnick about that when I Gget Tthere. Personally though, a new bridge seems like a lot of expense just to fit a $170 pickup. While you're here, any comment on T-Bal's interpretation of "Which way is up" on the FC as opposed to yours? You guys seem to be saying opposit things. Before I make this decision, it might be nice to clear this up. :D
 
#44
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Cool, thanks for the reply. I'll ask Nnick about that when I Gget Tthere. Personally though, a new bridge seems like a lot of expense just to fit a $170 pickup. While you're here, any comment on T-Bal's interpretation of "Which way is up" on the FC as opposed to yours? You guys seem to be saying opposit things. Before I make this decision, it might be nice to clear this up. :D
Click to expand...
If cost is your main concern, then just don't do it. Trying to plug and refit adjuster on the opposite sides (while keeping everything in perfect alignment) is not an easy job and IMO a new bridge is a better way to go in the long run.

On the "which way is up" business, I was simply passing on what is on the Fishman web site. From what they say, the difference between Up and Down threads is exactly what T-Bal is saying. It's the old "string" vs "wood" sound all over again. I love the "wood" sound that I'm able to get with the Realist on my other basses. If the FC will give me that with my German bass, I'll be happy.

I plan to install the FC adjusters threads up on this bass. If that doesn't give me the sound I'm looking for (but is close), I may fit yet another bridge with the threads down before I give up and move on to something else.
 
#45
Bob Branstetter said:
If cost is your main concern, then just don't do it. Trying to plug and refit adjuster on the opposite sides (while keeping everything in perfect alignment) is not an easy job and IMO a new bridge is a better way to go in the long run.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. It's not that I'm being a cheapskate (just ask Marcus :D ), it's just that the idea of forking over another $150-200 just to hear the difference between the pickup "right side up" or "upside down" seems a bit extreme. I spoke to the gentleman I bought the bass from, and he said that a big part of my problem may be that the bass is becoming a giant microphone at higher volumes, picking up the signals from the other instruments, which makes sense. He suggested stuffing some foam under the tailpiece at very high volumes to dampen the unwanted vibration of the top in those situations. That makes sense, and I'll give it a try.

T-BAL - I know what you mean about "stoopid" volume levels, but still, when you find yourself in those situations, I like the option of being able to hang even if I might be wishing I were playing a nice acoustic duo the whole time. I actually played a gig recently on the old bass at "stoopid" volume levels that was a lot of fun. Not what I would have chosen, but a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I should have my PUB and Dyn-B in a couple of weeks, and will submit a full report, SIR! :)
 
#47
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I spoke to the gentleman I bought the bass from, and he said that a big part of my problem may be that the bass is becoming a giant microphone at higher volumes, picking up the signals from the other instruments, which makes sense. He suggested stuffing some foam under the tailpiece at very high volumes to dampen the unwanted vibration of the top in those situations. That makes sense, and I'll give it a try.
Click to expand...
That is going to be true of almost all good basses and of all pickups that are located on or close to the table. It's unfortunate that you can't have it both way. You get the tone from the wood if the pickup is on or near the table, but it sucks for high volume situations. You can get high volume from a pickup if it is located on or near the string area, but most of what you pickup is getting is string sound. I know several top players who use a Realist normally, but pull out their old Fishman BP-100 clip-on pickup (as bad as it is) to use in high volume situations.
 
#48
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Thanks for the info. It's not that I'm being a cheapskate (just ask Marcus :D ), it's just that the idea of forking over another $150-200 just to hear the difference between the pickup "right side up" or "upside down" seems a bit extreme. I spoke to the gentleman I bought the bass from, and he said that a big part of my problem may be that the bass is becoming a giant microphone at higher volumes, picking up the signals from the other instruments, which makes sense. He suggested stuffing some foam under the tailpiece at very high volumes to dampen the unwanted vibration of the top in those situations. That makes sense, and I'll give it a try.

T-BAL - I know what you mean about "stoopid" volume levels, but still, when you find yourself in those situations, I like the option of being able to hang even if I might be wishing I were playing a nice acoustic duo the whole time. I actually played a gig recently on the old bass at "stoopid" volume levels that was a lot of fun. Not what I would have chosen, but a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I should have my PUB and Dyn-B in a couple of weeks, and will submit a full report, SIR! :)
Click to expand...

Hey Chris, you are going to have to get a small mixer or something to use as a preamp for the Dyn B. If you have an XLR to 1/4" jack you could use your Raven Labs pre. Just a note about the Dyn B. It doesn't excell at high volumes. Also, I wouldn't dampen the top of the bass since the Dyn is a contact mic. It would change the character of your bass. This pickup really shines in duo and trio situations where the sound means everything. However, when it starts getting loud the Dyn B starts to loose clarity(just like a mic). Congrats though! You have a killer setup!
 
#49
Adrian Juras said:
Hey Chris, you are going to have to get a small mixer or something to use as a preamp for the Dyn B. If you have an XLR to 1/4" jack you could use your Raven Labs pre. Just a note about the Dyn B. It doesn't excell at high volumes. Also, I wouldn't dampen the top of the bass since the Dyn is a contact mic. It would change the character of your bass. This pickup really shines in duo and trio situations where the sound means everything. However, when it starts getting loud the Dyn B starts to loose clarity(just like a mic). Congrats though! You have a killer setup!
Click to expand...


This is not necessarily true. I have used the Dyn B at "Stoopid" volume levels, and if you have a good eq and a good PA, it can sound really natural. I only have trouble with the high volume thing with PA's with no headroom. I use 2 pubs and a Mackie Mixer to power a ;arge club here, which has to be at large volumes because of the size of this place, and it sounds pretty great. Played an outdoor concert where they had me at ridiculous volume levels (rock levels) recently. I gave the sound guy my Behringer Parametric eq for my channel, and his huge system made it sound great. It drove my teacher nuts becasue he kept looking for my mic and couldn't see it. :D

Monte
 
#51
Adrian Cho said:
Wow I didn't know you were going to get a Pub as well. What do you plan to use as a preamp?
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I haven't decided yet. Hopefully something that will mount on my stool so I won't have to **** with it too much (I use dual-lock to mount any preamp I use on my stool). Won't the PMB do the job if needed?

As for the Dyn-B, I want to compare it with the FC and DBM and see which situations it outshines the other two in, if any.
 
#54
Monte said:
This is not necessarily true. I have used the Dyn B at "Stoopid" volume levels, and if you have a good eq and a good PA, it can sound really natural. I only have trouble with the high volume thing with PA's with no headroom. I use 2 pubs and a Mackie Mixer to power a ;arge club here, which has to be at large volumes because of the size of this place, and it sounds pretty great. Played an outdoor concert where they had me at ridiculous volume levels (rock levels) recently. I gave the sound guy my Behringer Parametric eq for my channel, and his huge system made it sound great. It drove my teacher nuts becasue he kept looking for my mic and couldn't see it. :D

Monte
Click to expand...
Same here (see my post -#21 in this thread- about my gig in the circus tent).

Vincent
 
#55
Adrian Juras said:
Hey Chris, you are going to have to get a small mixer or something to use as a preamp for the Dyn B. If you have an XLR to 1/4" jack you could use your Raven Labs pre. Just a note about the Dyn B. It doesn't excell at high volumes. Also, I wouldn't dampen the top of the bass since the Dyn is a contact mic. It would change the character of your bass. This pickup really shines in duo and trio situations where the sound means everything. However, when it starts getting loud the Dyn B starts to loose clarity(just like a mic). Congrats though! You have a killer setup!
Click to expand...

I guess everyone has their own idea of high volumes but I believe the Dyn-B handles high volumes without a problem. And it definitely handles a heck of a lot more than duo or trio. I play loud quintets easily with my AMT without problems and I regard the Dyn-B as being far, far more capable of handling higher volumes. In fact in testing I was never able to get the Dyn-B to feedback at all.
 
#56
T-BAG said:
A couple of weeks?!? I don't think I can wait that long.
Click to expand...

Tell me about it. However, the Aebersold camps wait for no man.


DORIAN MODE,

I'm not so much worried about feedback as I am losing the tonal character of a pickup or mic once the volume creeps up. You can bet I'll do plenty of experimenting before I give up on anything. And of course I'll log on here and bitch about everything that doesn't work exactly as I wanted it to. :)
 
#57
Adrian Cho said:
I guess everyone has their own idea of high volumes but I believe the Dyn-B handles high volumes without a problem. And it definitely handles a heck of a lot more than duo or trio. I play loud quintets easily with my AMT without problems and I regard the Dyn-B as being far, far more capable of handling higher volumes. In fact in testing I was never able to get the Dyn-B to feedback at all.
Click to expand...

You are right. The Dyn B is a lot more capable than a mic at handling high volume situations. The only situation I had problems in was with the Big Band. I didn't have any problem with feedback. The Dyn looses clarity when pushed. My amplifier didn't have a lot of headroom however, so that should account for a good bit of that.
 
#58
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Tell me about it. However, the Aebersold camps wait for no man.

DORIAN MODE,

I'm not so much worried about feedback as I am losing the tonal character of a pickup or mic once the volume creeps up. You can bet I'll do plenty of experimenting before I give up on anything. And of course I'll log on here and bitch about everything that doesn't work exactly as I wanted it to. :)
Click to expand...

I couldn't say that I've noticed any tonal difference with the Dyn-B when the volume was cranked.

When you're at the Aebersold camp, check out a trumpet player called "Jean Trudel", he plays in one of my bands here in Ottawa and will be attending the camp this year (long drive down).
 
#59
Adrian Cho said:
I couldn't say that I've noticed any tonal difference with the Dyn-B when the volume was cranked.
Click to expand...

Now, THAT's what I wanted to hear!

When you're at the Aebersold camp, check out a trumpet player called "Jean Trudel", he plays in one of my bands here in Ottawa and will be attending the camp this year (long drive down).
Click to expand...

Will do. Tell him he's welcome to attend my evening voicing workshop. Better yet, have him look me up in room 121 during the voicing class hour - I'll be stationary and a lot easier to find than he'll be. I'd love to say hello.
 
#60
Chris, I like the pre-AII with the dyn pickup but I've also
used a Raven Labs and it works too. With higher impedance
pickups like the Underwood or Wilson I use a TC Electronics
preamp or the dual parametric eq. I can get enough gain
for most situations. I've also used the front end of a
Walter Woods amp and it also works using the line out to the
pub.
Most of the time I just set it on top of a milk crate to get
it off the floor.
 

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