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What would you say is the difference in tone between tube and solid states?
- Thread starter taygunov
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I'd say the two are not consistently different enough to warrant such a broad comparison, considering there are thousands of models of each variety, all of which sound different.
+1. What I would add is that the most significant generalization you could make, is that when pushed to distort, they behave differently.
A more savvy electrical engineering type could go on about even and odd order harmonics, or some such greek. But in general, if you want to run your amp at distortion levels, most people prefer the sound of tubes breaking up over transistors. Both can do clean though.
For my tuppence worth, in easy words, valves (tubes) give a 'rich' sound whereas transistors seem to give a 'plain' sound.
To elaborate a little the rich sound isn't necessarily 'better', particulary for bass, as the bass is often required to have a sound which can lift it from the muddy waters of low frequencies. The colour added by valves can be detrimental to this.
In a music shop or your bedroom the glossy, coloured sound of the valves, reproducing highs as tinsle and driving lows like a diesel, are likely to sound more attractive to the more matt finish of the transistors. Bit like expensive wine will give you raspberries, lemon etc and the cheap one, well, wine. But in a cooking mix the lemons etc will be lost and the cheap wine will more likely give more of a wine taste. Some find transistors cut through bettr in a band or recording.
To really try it out go and plug into a Hartke, they have both, and play with the mixing gain controls. I bet no-on who uses Hartke has one gain up and the other off!
No right and wrong, its horses for courses, much more so for bass than guitar (still no solid state answer to the valves of Hiwatt, Marshall, Vox etc).
Anyway, I agree, shouldn't this be in the 'amp' section?
To elaborate a little the rich sound isn't necessarily 'better', particulary for bass, as the bass is often required to have a sound which can lift it from the muddy waters of low frequencies. The colour added by valves can be detrimental to this.
In a music shop or your bedroom the glossy, coloured sound of the valves, reproducing highs as tinsle and driving lows like a diesel, are likely to sound more attractive to the more matt finish of the transistors. Bit like expensive wine will give you raspberries, lemon etc and the cheap one, well, wine. But in a cooking mix the lemons etc will be lost and the cheap wine will more likely give more of a wine taste. Some find transistors cut through bettr in a band or recording.
To really try it out go and plug into a Hartke, they have both, and play with the mixing gain controls. I bet no-on who uses Hartke has one gain up and the other off!
No right and wrong, its horses for courses, much more so for bass than guitar (still no solid state answer to the valves of Hiwatt, Marshall, Vox etc).
Anyway, I agree, shouldn't this be in the 'amp' section?
Oh, just to add about the harmonics, valve amps distort and give overtones that are mainly in thirds around the note played, solid state in fifths. Nothing wrong with either but when you play a chord with root and a third it gives a warm sort of sound, but a root and fifth is a more harsh sound.
I believe those to be the basics.
So that Marshall feedback from AC/DC you hear a whistle that is mostly a third above the note. If they did the same thing with a transistor amp it would likley be a fifth. Don't know who uses transistor amps for guitars to give examples!
(You could try listening to a live recording of Pinball Wizard where JE crashes in over the guitar intro and, normally after the key change to D, gets feedback from his bass. His Sunn amps (transistor I believe) give a fifth.)
I believe those to be the basics.
So that Marshall feedback from AC/DC you hear a whistle that is mostly a third above the note. If they did the same thing with a transistor amp it would likley be a fifth. Don't know who uses transistor amps for guitars to give examples!
(You could try listening to a live recording of Pinball Wizard where JE crashes in over the guitar intro and, normally after the key change to D, gets feedback from his bass. His Sunn amps (transistor I believe) give a fifth.)
+1 There is now a large middle area of amps where sonically they are next to identical. The fringes show the extreme capabilities of tubes or SS.
If can more often come down to what the player wants for her/his touch and ears as out front there may be little distinction. Unless of course we are at the extremes where there is a certain level of saturated tube sound that is the tubes strength and high fidelity which is the SS's.
how about amps where the tubes are just in the preamp section, with a solid state power amp?
or are we talking all-tube all the way?
or are we talking all-tube all the way?
Depending on what two heads you are comparing, they could be vastly different or unidentifiably the same and everything in between.
The difference is response. I can dynamically change the tone and punch over a much broader range just by touch with my all-tube over my hybrid or ss amps. Much less knob twiddling and pedal stomping because I can bring in a mid punch while maintaining the room-filling bottom boom all at the same time, really, as I've said before, just by thinking it. That more dynamic sound really mixes in and punches through even better, as well, letting the 100w all-tube B-15R do many of the gigs I had previously used my 450w 3Pro for.
I didn't really get it until I tried it full time. I was pretty happy with the tone of my hybrid, having a lot of that "warmth" when I wanted it (manually boosting mids, usually). But, man, I was really suprised at how "plugged-in" I feel playing through an all-tube. It's like the ends of my fingers are coming out the speakers. I know that sounds goofy, but it's as much the playing experience as it is the tone itself, though enhancing the former tends to enhance the latter. Active bass hitting an all-tube amp == playing heaven.
I didn't really get it until I tried it full time. I was pretty happy with the tone of my hybrid, having a lot of that "warmth" when I wanted it (manually boosting mids, usually). But, man, I was really suprised at how "plugged-in" I feel playing through an all-tube. It's like the ends of my fingers are coming out the speakers. I know that sounds goofy, but it's as much the playing experience as it is the tone itself, though enhancing the former tends to enhance the latter. Active bass hitting an all-tube amp == playing heaven.
Tube amps have a shimmer/phase sound across the spectrum that I've never heard solid state gear duplicate (with the except of a very, very high end mic preamp in an expensive studio). It has a 'sheen' on the top end, and a fat bottom that doesn't grunt like SS can.
Of course, 'tubes' are not magic bottles. Between a bad tube amp and a great SS amp, I'd take the SS any day. But there aren't many bad tube amps. They tend to have a simpler design, and less complication means more tone.
Best amps I've ever heard in my life, gain, bass, treble, and some hot, ptp wired 6550's.
Of course, 'tubes' are not magic bottles. Between a bad tube amp and a great SS amp, I'd take the SS any day. But there aren't many bad tube amps. They tend to have a simpler design, and less complication means more tone.
Best amps I've ever heard in my life, gain, bass, treble, and some hot, ptp wired 6550's.
Tube amps sound much more alive and vibrant. There is a richness and presence that the S/S cannot duplicate. The tone is richer and more dynamic. There's nothing quite like plugging a Rick 4003 or old Gibson Thunderbird into a nice tube amp. The mids, lows and highs are all accsentuated to the point where the instrument really shins. 
If you're talking about the tone of an amp which is an extension of an instrument and generating something musical which is more than just the tone produced by the instrument....
Tube vs solid state is like a really good bottle of booze vs the cheap stuff. They both do the same thing but in different ways. The tone of a tube amp is more complex and smoother in a good way, more pleasant. In contrast, a solid state amp tends to be harsher and leaves something to be desired.
Tube vs solid state is like a really good bottle of booze vs the cheap stuff. They both do the same thing but in different ways. The tone of a tube amp is more complex and smoother in a good way, more pleasant. In contrast, a solid state amp tends to be harsher and leaves something to be desired.
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