What's On Your Workbench?

[Lo-E]

Curses, foiled again!

Well, not again, actually. I’ve never used foil in a body cavity before but my shielding paint dried up so I punted. Copper is a better shield anyway.

Meanwhile, the sick Thunderbird has taken a second, longer nap under the warm blanket:

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Copper is a better shield anyway.

Just for reference, that's not true. There are some folks on other parts of TalkBass who repeat that endlessly. Shielding paint, applied correctly, provides shielding that is equal to or better than copper tape shielding.

Copper tape does a fine job too when installed well, like you've done. But it's not superior to good shielding paint. That's a myth.

 

[TerribleTim68]

I use copper tape, not because it's "better" but because it's simpler. For me anyways. It's crazy easy to order a roll of conductive copper tape from the Amazonians, it's easier for me to apply it in a manner that functions and that I can trust to be correct and it's easier to store the leftovers.

 

[Flamingo21]

I use copper tape (...) because it's simpler. (...) It's crazy easy to order a roll of conductive copper tape from the Amazonians, it's easier for me to apply it in a manner that functions and that I can trust to be correct and it's easier to store the leftovers.

That makes sense. But I've heard somewhere that it's easy to cut your hands on it. Is it?

 

[TerribleTim68]

That makes sense. But I've heard somewhere that it's easy to cut your hands on it. Is it?

I haven't had a problem, it isn't that thick or stiff. It's no worse than paper in that regard.

 

[Beej]

Just for reference, that's not true. There are some folks on other parts of TalkBass who repeat that endlessly. Shielding paint, applied correctly, provides shielding that is equal to or better than copper tape shielding.

Copper tape does a fine job too when installed well, like you've done. But it's not superior to good shielding paint. That's a myth.

I was going to post the same thing... The only places I find that recommend copper tape over quality shielding paint is on guitar-based websites. Seems part of the culture to stick to the tape. It works well enough, but there's something about the clean, smooth, dark surfaces that you get with good shielding paint. Plus it's durable, gets more thorough coverage with no holes and is cheaper overall, even using good stuff like MG Chemicals.

/rant.

 

[RichterScale]

That makes sense. But I've heard somewhere that it's easy to cut your hands on it. Is it?

If I had to describe the roll I currently have, I'd say it's like a very thin aluminum foil. It would fold over or rip before it cut you. I think the adhesive on the back is 90% of it's strength. The aluminum duct tape I use all the time for other stuff is a lot thicker and stiffer and it's rare to catch a small knick from that stuff. You'd have to try really hard to cut yourself with the thin copper shielding tape.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

In copper shielding tape, like what Stew-Mac sells, the copper foil is 0.001" thick. I measured some.

Good shielding paint, like MG Supershield Nickel that I use, typically ends up at 0.006"-0.010" thick after two coats. I measured it.

 

[Lo-E]

I’ve certainly never had any complaints with shielding paint. I’ve used it dozens of times and, with two well-applied coats, it’s always worked just fine.

This time my trusty (and quite old) can of shielding paint just contained a sad little dried-up puck in the bottom. The tape was near at hand so I used it and no, it was not internet misinformation that led me astray but my own assumption that copper would be better. An assumption that turns out to be incorrect so now it seems I’ve made my own little bit of internet misinformation. Anyhow, all quibbling aside, I don’t expect it to shield the bass any better or worse than the paint would have.

As far as cutting myself goes… no. The tape is very thin and very soft. I’m not sure I could cut myself with it even if I tried. I think it would just tear.

 

[Max Bogosity]

I can understand the bias against shielding paint. I’ve bought a few instruments that had something black painted inside the control cavity, but it certainly wasn’t doing much shielding. Might have been incompetence, or cost cutting to the point of uselessness.

On the other hand I’ve also done some tape shielding that started to fail after a couple of years as the copper corroded and the adhesive started to give up.

 

[Rôckhewer]

I use copper tape, not because it's "better" but because it's simpler. For me anyways. It's crazy easy to order a roll of conductive copper tape from the Amazonians, it's easier for me to apply it in a manner that functions and that I can trust to be correct and it's easier to store the leftovers.

Easier than mask/spray/wait a tic/spray again... done?
This is my "leftovers".
A rattle can I've had stored for 4 years and it's still good! ... there are very many Faraday cages left in this can.
Turn the can upside down & pfffft... to clean the tip after use.

 

[rojo412]

Every foil shield job I'd done left my fingertips looking like the arm of the couch at my cat-owning drummer's house.
Switched to MG paint and it's so much faster and easier and it doesn't scratch my fingers. Between the time you save doing the job, how much neater it looks, and how effective it is, it's WAY better than foil.
But this is for the MG Nickel Spray.

Brush on stuff from Stewie takes 3-4 days to properly lay enough coats, it's not nearly as conductive, and I absolutely hated using it.

 

[chinjazz]

I need to try MG Spray! I've tried a few of these other things like Graphite-based brush on things like EZ-Slide, and mixing up my own with not so great results in testing... Also kind of tired of copper foil.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I don't know if is this overkill (probably), but on rear-access electronics basses with no pickguard, where you are relying on the wood top itself to support the control pots, I've been using 1/16" aluminum sheet stock that forms the "roof" of the control cavity. That get's copper foil covered, epoxied in, and then copper foil on the side walls lapped over it.

I foiled the back of the cover as well. I used some black conductive paint just around the "rim" of the cavity, it wasn't MG super shield, which is more gunmetal colored, but after two coats, I can't get conductivity out of the black stuff and copper that laps over it. Once again, my cheaping out burns me. Maybe it doesn't matter if I run a tab of foil up into the "rim" that will contact the foil on the cavity cover?

 

[Lo-E]

Maybe it doesn't matter if I run a tab of foil up into the "rim" that will contact the foil on the cavity cover?

That will work just fine. Put it close to a cover screw so it’s making good contact.

Overkill? If the bass is quiet you’ve won.

I need to try MG Spray! I've tried a few of these other things like Graphite-based brush on things like EZ-Slide, and mixing up my own with not so great results in testing... Also kind of tired of copper foil.

There’s a big difference in efficacy between nickel-based shielding paint and graphite-based shielding paint. That’s not to say graphite doesn’t work, but you need a lot more coats to get comparable coverage.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

The black crap I bought must be the graphite based. My only beef with the mg nickel super shield is it’s barely enough to do one guitar in the little pots, and it tends to dry so fast it gets clumpy, or dries in the pot. Maybe I’ll try the spray stuff next time.?

 

[TerribleTim68]

Easier than mask/spray/wait a tic/spray again... done?
...

I'm not saying it's "better", I'm saying it's "easier for me". That's the key verbiage, "for me". If I was spraying, I'd need to set up a booth and ventilation. Remember, I'm working in my garage where my project car, my Harley, my wife's Harley, my Buell and all of our important "things" are stored. I'm already pushing the limits of her patience with the sawdust in there, overspray falling on her Harley or the Christmas china, even from a 20' distance probably isn't gonna go over real well. I'm not saying that little can is gonna create a ton of overspray, but "perception" is a thing. If she sees me spraying something in there, I'm gonna catch hell. And I live in a state where 90% of the time it's raining so just spraying it outdoors is not usually an option. So again, "easier for me" to just use the foil and stick it on. No dust, no overspray, and most importantly, no angry wife.
Given the option of a dedicated shop, I'd go a different route and build some sort of a spray booth where I could do way more than just spray some shielding paint in cavities. But, my quote for that dedicated shop was in the neighborhood of $50k, we don't live in that neighborhood.

 

[Crawforde]

yea, sharing space can be difficult
My wife picked up a thin, curly, translucent wood shaving.
It was almost 2 feet long.
Her “What is this?”
Me “That’s a shaving from that curly maple board. I just sharpened and tuned up my plane. Isn’t that awesome!”
NO! It’s disgusting keep your mess away from my car.
Yea.
I need put up a tarp out back as far from the house as possible.

 

[RichterScale]

There has to be some sort of program/government grant available for abused husbands that need an outbuilding.

 

[TerribleTim68]

There has to be some sort of program/government grant available for abused husbands that need an outbuilding.

You'd think, huh?

Queue Sarah McLachlan music -
"For less than a cup of coffee a day, you can help save these magnificent creatures....."