What's so special about John Entwistle?

[arbiterusa]

The Who is pretty much the antithesis of "subtle".

He was really the first rock guy - followed very quickly by Chris Squire - who refused to sit in the back of the bus. There were four guys in that band, every last one essential to making it work, and Entwistle wasn't EVER going to let you overlook that he was one of them.

 

[LoTone]

One thing he could do better than most was soloing...

 

[nnnnnn]

Entwistle is highly regarded, so I wanted to see what the fuss was all about. I listened to a few of The Who's songs on Spotify: "Baba O'Riley," "Behind Blue Eyes," and "My Generation," but I didn't exactly get it. Maybe they were the wrong songs? Maybe I'm not listening carefully enough?

Were you expecting bass virtuosity to be on display in every song he recorded? I'm not very familiar with The Who's catalogue, but maybe Entwistle played what each song needed, sometimes fancy, sometimes not. Three songs seems like way too small a sample to tell.

 

[mdogs]

I have more of a problem with Bill Wyman's place in the pantheon, and I've seen bassists on this forum defend him fiercely. I remain unconvinced. These things are annoyingly subjective. I love The Who and I love John's playing. Makes me unobjective.

If you listen to Townshend's demos maybe you'd hear what John normally brings to the table via it's absence. Not that his contributions are all that subtle in the first place...

Part of the problem with Wyman is that, Keef played far more of the bass parts than most people know and as far as I am concerned, Keef is a better bass player.

 

[mdogs]

In regards to Entwistle, what does taste have to do with understanding his superiority? There are plenty of musical genres that I don't like, but that doesn't prevent me from understanding a good bass player when I hear one.

 

[Peteyboy]

Part of the problem with Wyman is that, Keef played far more of the bass parts than most people know and as far as I am concerned, Keef is a better bass player.

Right. Can you imagine a version of that dynamic taking place within The Who?

 

[diegom]

Entwistle was the very first lead bassist, and he did it before anyone else and did it insanely well considering he had no role models like we do.

Not to argue but, would you consider Entwistle as first lead, before Jack Bruce? Or am I splitting hairs?
I do respect your opinion, that's why I ask...

 

[210superair]

Right. Can you imagine a version of that dynamic taking place within The Who?

They would've had a punch up first.... Lol.
Lots of punch ups in the Who.

 

[Michedelic]

I suppose that's what I'm looking for.

I don't like rock music all that much, but I try to learn songs from different genres to become a better and more rounded musician. I don't like Black Sabbath or Metallica, but I have learned "Iron Man," "N.I.B.," and "For Whom the Bell Tolls" because the bass lines were interesting.

Entwistle is highly regarded, so I wanted to see what the fuss was all about. I listened to a few of The Who's songs on Spotify: "Baba O'Riley," "Behind Blue Eyes," and "My Generation," but I didn't exactly get it. Maybe they were the wrong songs? Maybe I'm not listening carefully enough?

You need to go beyond the worn out radio songs; if you were to sit down with the entire expanded “Live At Leeds” album(hell, even “Live At Hull” as well), open your ears, and absorb, then you may have an epiphany. You may not be accustomed to that kind of band jamming, that sort of thing has fallen by the wayside, and Pete, while having an iconic guitar style, is pretty limited otherwise, and really wears out certain riffing motifs, but the way the album is mixed, you can dial him out and get pummeled by the real stars of the show, the rhythm section. Unfortunately, there’s Roger’s caterwauling. A friend once mentioned that, while they already had their own thing going, at that moment in time they were perhaps running a bit scared of Led Zep, which may be the reason for all that excess, but on the other hand, it was JE’s moment to shine. The way that band was structured, he was simultaneously bass and lead, and while there were a few agile bassists in the British scene(Macca, Chandler, Samwell-Smith)he was the first to pursue an aggressive, bass-in-your face sound instead of being content with dully thumping away on 1 and 5...

 

[diegom]

One important thing to consider about his early work:
No YouTube.
No MTV (Remember, MTV used to play a lot of LIVE music)
Very few visual cues on how people did things.

For many musicians, their gear settings and techniques were highly-guarded "trade secrets". So, if you see this "very few role-models", no "let me see how that's done on Youtube or something" learning experience, you realize that he was a trailblazer.
These days, any kid can outplay Geddy, Flea, Les, etc. We see that on YouTube every day. Big difference is that those guys were ORIGINATORS. They made something out of nothing. Is not as much about fast fingers, is about the role in the song and the dynamics in the band.

I agree, I'm not The Ox's biggest fan, but I get his contribution to what WE do today.

IMHO

Diego

 

[MichelD]

If you have to ask you don't get it.

 

[Dominic D]

Entwistle was the very first lead bassist, and he did it before anyone else and did it insanely well considering he had no role models like we do.

That's something people always seem to forget. He didn't have the role models we have now. Much like Larry Graham did for slap, Entwistle created a new style of bass playing.

 

[sawzalot]

Entwistle was one the few notable bassists at the time that was playing like nobody else was or had before. This question is sort of like "what's so special about Hendrix"--he totally turned an entire genre on its ear.

 

[Roland GR 88]

Entwistle was the very first lead bassist, and he did it before anyone else and did it insanely well considering he had no role models like we do.

.......plus, he had to play with Keith Moon. Yikes!!

 

[IamGroot]

Ahhhh.... let's see......

Thank you for that.

Roll the credits!

 

[Killing Floor]

Aside from the numerous throws to "...Real Me" he's a very versitile bassist. It's easy to learn a decades old song and think "I can do that". But he was/is a pioneer. Plus The Who just turned the music world in the right direction.

If you can't appreciate JE as a bassist you can at least appreciate that he is a facial hair pioneer and obviously ruff enuff to sing Boris the Spider and brassy enough to get it selected for album pressing. Long Live!

 

[5andFretless]

 

[mattj1stc]

Serious chops, played bass in a different way, but most importantly, he did it all at time when people were still figuring out the potential of the electric bass guitar. See also Jamerson, Sir Paul, Jack Bruce, etc. John was also an innovator - first to use big amp stacks, first to use rounds, first bass solo on My Generation.

Granted, you can go online today and find clips of everyday people playing amazing bass lines in their bedrooms, but it's a different proposition to go back 50+ years and figure those kinds of things out on your own for the first time.

 

[Lowendtech]

Most things I would’ve said have been pointed out (Quadrophenia, The Real Me, Live at Leeds, trailblazing etc, @JimmyM’s post). But the real effect of John’s early playing was the effect that his bass lines and solos had on a young pre-pubescent me. It blew my mind and made me want to be a bass guitarist more than anything else that I’d heard at the time. It made me realize that the instrument was what you made of it. That passion has stayed with me for the last 40-50 years.

 

[JimmyM]

Not to argue but, would you consider Entwistle as first lead, before Jack Bruce? Or am I splitting hairs?
I do respect your opinion, that's why I ask...

As the Iron Shiek says, "You ask excellent question, Mr. Diego M." I'd have to say that for rock and roll, Entwistle edges him out as far as timeline. Contemporaries of each other for sure, but Jack was still playing jazz by the time the Who got rolling, I believe.